Recent Judaean Aquisitions

I'm very excited about my newly aquired Judaean coins
The coin diameter of the worn coins are close to the size of a U.S. nickel. When they were created two thousand years ago, the size would have been closer to a U.S. quarter. The thickness of one is 3.5 mm and the other is 2 mm. The thicker coin is struck on a flan that appears to be created from a one part mold. The thinner one is on a flan that appears to have been created from a two part mold and the halves are slightly off alignment. I'm not clear on why this process was used. I was told that it is not uncommon with Judaean coins. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this process. Please post images of any coins in your collections with two part mold flans.

 

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hu...neat deacon ray. didn't notice but my little coin appears to have the same thing going on, not as pronounced as yours..



i assume that's what's going on with the slight "rim" going on there on the left?

nice lookin' new judeans!

 

Thanks for posting, Chrsmat71! Your prutah really shows the results of the two part process.

 

That's a wonderful group!! I love the historical context!!

Really?? I'm surprised they could have lost so much of their original size....a bit of the weight perhaps, but size reduction always seemed to be more associated with clipped silver or gold coins.

 

Actually their current diameters at 23 and 24mm are closer to a U.S. quarter (24.26mm) than to a U.S. nickel (21.21mm). The flans must ideally have been closer to 25mm in order to accommodate the design.

 

Excellent pickups! Many RR bronzes were made with two part molds as well. Each of the examples below has signs of this process and "SAFRA" as even has what appears to be a casting seam at first glance. It is a casting seam, just not a modern one - this seam is from mold separation during the casting of the flan.

 

The vast majority of ancient coins were struck on cast flans (very few were cut from sheets) and many (often larger ones) still show some sign of the flan preparation process. Some of us like coins that show this feature. There are probably none more common than Judeans.

 

@Deacon Ray, in case you haven't seen their website, Fontanille Coins has some interesting information about Judaean coins and they have regular auctions.

I have very mixed feelings about what they consider acceptable "restoration" of coins though.

http://www.fontanillecoins.com/cleaning_service.htm Coating the coin with a light colored material to mimic a sand patina, hiding surface blemishes and making the devices stand out.

http://www.fontanillecoins.com/tooling.htm

 

Their page is very interesting and informative. A lot of the question of what is proper depends on whether you sell the coin as 'makeup applied' or natural. Current culture allows lipstick on a pig and artificial bacon flavoring. Oil painting are cleaned and restored to erase a few centuries and no one complains. I can 'Photoshop' images (coins or otherwise) taken with my camera. In each case the question is how much and how secretly the work is done.

I rather like turkey bacon/sausage and even nitrate free turkey bacon. These are neither 'bacon' nor piglike. The labels, properly, are required to say what is inside. Sometimes I think we would be better off if we called things what they are and let people decide if they want Maybelline on their noses or on their coins. I enjoy vegetables but will never understand the need to create meat free meat (Tofurkey). Parallels between coin collecting and cultural strangeness abound.

 

Excellent websites, TIF! Thank you for these! Yes, definitely one has to draw the line between moderate expert restoration and changing features with the intent to deceive. I'm okay with the expert removal of encrusted organic and mineral matter. The key word is expert. Removing corrosion around the high surfaces is acceptable. Tooling to create features which are not there is unacceptable. As far as toning is concerned, I really have no strong feelings against it. I would never do it myself. As far as painting the high surfaces, unless it's done specifically to educate, I think it shouldn't be done. Another technique of applying toning and wiping off the high spots in order to contrast features, again If it's done expertly, I really don't have strong feelings against it.

 

Definitely food for thought.

Cosmetic rightness or wrongness aside, one of my bigger concerns is that the applied material may cause, hide, or accelerate degradation of the underlying metal. I've witnessed that in person with a group of Alexandrian tetradrachms which had what appeared to be a "patina" of women's makeup. The metal underneath had verdigris whereas the uncovered parts did not. I removed the makeup immediately upon receipt of the coins and treated them in various ways but I'm having to keep a close eye on them. A few have shown increasing verdigris where the makeup had been.

 

Double dipping here. I posted a comment reply above but somehow lost your quote. Please forgive the repetition but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I need to get this right.

Excellent websites, TIF! Thank you for these! Yes, definitely one has to draw the line between moderate expert restoration and changing features with the intent to deceive. I'm okay with the expert removal of encrusted organic and mineral matter. The key word is expert. Removing corrosion around the high surfaces is acceptable. Tooling to create features which are not there is unacceptable. As far as toning is concerned, I really have no strong feelings against it. I would never do it myself. As far as painting the high surfaces, unless it's done specifically to educate, I think it shouldn't be done. Another technique of applying toning and wiping off the high spots in order to contrast features, again If it's done expertly, I really don't have strong feelings against it.

I'm okay with a qualified expert with good intentions performing restoration work that does not attempt to turn the coin into something that it is not for the purpose of deceiving collectors for monetary gain. Any practices to hide serious defects or mask bronze disease is unacceptable and criminal in my opinion.

One of the great things about collecting coins from a relatively narrow timeframe and location (Judaean, Biblical period prutot) is that I've been able to afford multiples of the same types of coin. My collection includes natural non-restored, conserved and restored, and some that have been scrubbed shiny.

 

Is acetone a solvent that you would use?

 

I use a variety of different soaks depending on what I think is on the bronze coin. Rubbing alcohol is effective in removing makeup (and I'm convinced that is what some of my "desert patina" coins had on them). Mineral spirits work for colored wax. Acetone can dissolve various glues. If I use any of these, I also put the coin through a couple of soaks in distilled water prior to a thorough drying and a coat of VerdiCare.

 

I've confessed this before for better or worse. I send most of my coins away for certification and slabbing. (Sorry, it's a personal thing, I just love the look on peoples faces when I hand them one and they read the details on the label). Anyway, I always pay the extra fee for conservation services. I am hoping that by so doing, the specialists at NGC will be able to recognize and remove any superficial pigments that have been applied for the purpose of artificial enhancement. What do you think? Is this a good idea?

 

I have no idea what their conservationists do as a matter of routine. I wouldn't assume anything about their processes. It would be interesting for you to ask them though and report back here .

 

Excellent points. Doug! The oil painting example is a great one. The Leonardo da Vinci Last Supper mural was restored. Large areas needed to be reworked because they were literally gone. Much of the painting as it exists now is newly applied pigment. None of this changes the fact the the painting is still The Last Supper by Leonardo da Vinci.

Here's another example that did not work out so well.

This was in the news a few years back.
Elderly Woman Ruins 19th Century Fresco in Restoration Attempt



The sweet old woman had good intentions but her efforts were disastrous.

 

Excellent idea! I'm going to give them a call. They know me well.

 

Boss coins, Deacon Ray!

I love that painting! It's become quite a tourist attraction. If I wasn't afraid of flying, I'd go check it out.

Erin

 

Hi TIF,
I called NGC's Conservation Service (NCS) and the customer service lady assured me that if I elect Conservation Service when I submit my ancient coins for certification and slabbing, the coins will be cleaned and artificial patinas will be removed. I have the before photos of my Mattathias Antigonus coins which I purchased from Zurqiah Co. LLC. I will post the before and after photos when they come back from NGC and NCS. The patina on the coins may very well be an applied surface pigment to enhance the contrast of the raised details. If that is the case then the coins will no doubt have a different appearance after they are cleaned.

I've read some comments about Zurqiah on other comment sites and there are collectors who have raised the question of the possibility of artificial desert patinas being applied by Zurqiah to their coins. That may be the case but I won't let that deter me from ordering from them again. I've ordered from them in the past and Hussam Zurqieh has always been dependable and quick to respond to my inquiries and concerns. They have a great inventory and its my opinion that they're a trustworthy dealer in ancients.