Real or fake, I recently bought a coin from The Time Machine on Vcoins

Today, I bought a Thessaly, Larissa drachm from the Time Machine, a Vcoins seller.



Here is the dealer’s description of that coin:

Greece, Thessaly, Larissa, 400-360 BC, AR Drachm, Youth wrestling bull left/Rev. horse prancing right, 3.77g BMC 39, Solid VF+

I was so quick to add the coin to my cart that I ignored reading the specifications of the coin’s description. I noticed my drachm weighed only 3.77 grams, which is rather light. Most Thessaly drachms I’ve seen weigh between 5.50-6.00 grams. Why does my coin weigh less?

I suspect my coin is:

1) a modern fake

2) a fouree

3) a genuine coin that’s heavily crystallized or embrittled

What are your thoughts?

 

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Here is a closer view of my coin’s surfaces:

 

I like the youth's cape waiving like a hero.
Though the pictures are blurry, I believe I see crystallization, which is a sign of it being ancient though fragile.
As well, coming from a V coins seller is a nice bonus.

 

Maybe a hemidrachm not a drachm although I'm not familiar with these. The weight may even be wrong in the listing. This dealer has made mistakes in the past as well, which usually gets you a deal if you know what you're looking at.

 

Well, I don’t like handling crystallized coins because I’m afraid they’ll shatter in my clumsy hands. This is one reason why most of my collection consists of Romans rather than Greeks as I see a lot less Roman denarii with crystallized surfaces

 

I believe the Hemidrachm show the forepart of the bull, rather than the entire body

 

Nice coin! I remember seeing it listed. I have heard good things about that seller, and have purchased from him in the past. It could be that the listing is mistaken. A lot of his listings give scant information and seem to be somewhat superficially put together (not saying he's not trustworthy, at all!)
Or perhaps the denomination's nominal weight varied enough to allow for the discrepancy.

 

..looks ok to me, but you can send it back no questions asked..

 

I can't tell anything from the photo, but IMO that weight is too far off for comfort. I would strongly recommend returning the coin.

 

Then it sounds like you were a bit hasty with this purchase. As well, with so much detail missing and off flan, you can find a better one that you're not worried about for what you paid at auction.

 

The coin appears to be struck from heavily worn dies .

 

1) Probably not. It’s not an obvious fake or the dealer would have caught it. Some effort is required to deceive a knowledgeable dealer. Anyone putting in that level of effort would likely use a blank of at least approximately the correct weight. I’m assuming it’s silver (coated at least) and it’s not exhibiting modern methods.
2) Could be. Fourees are commonly plated base metal, and that could be the case here which might explain some of the weight discrepancy. That coin is quite light, though even when substituting bronze for silver. Fourees can be that poorly made, but again a dealer would catch that.
3) Probably not. Coins crystallized to the point of losing 40% of their mass are usually obvious on inspection. The photos aren’t too clear, but the surface doesn’t look heavily crystallized and nothing short of extensive smoothing could hide that. Again, the dealer would likely note the tooling.

Another possibility for light weight (5-10%) is often wear, except not in this case. The coin is in very good shape and the weight discrepancy is too large for wear to explain it.

Another possibility is a severely underweight flan. This apparently did happen on occasion in some mints at least.

Another possibility somebody mentioned is the coin isn’t a drachm and is a hemi- or some such lower denomination. A quick search didn’t turn up any with this design, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t such a coin and I’m certainly no expert.

Another possibility is the flan was intended for a different set of dies and you have an “off metal” coin. (Which would be very cool).

Another possibility is the mint is wrong and it was struck by another city/state mimicking your location’s coins. Many regions mimicked Athens owls, for example, and you see misattributed ones all the time. Again, I’m no expert on this coin or location to know if that’s possible here.

Another possibility, and one I kind of like, is it was left in an acid cleaning bath for too long. Perhaps there were discolorations or something after initial cleaning and the coin was placed in an acid bath. Assuming the surfaces were clean and evenly accessible to the acid the entire thing gets evenly thinner. I used to make “paper cents” this way as a kid. The design edges get a little rounded but otherwise it looks about the same just thinner. Your coin may exhibit this? Hard to tell from the photos.

A final possibility that comes to mind is someone went to town tooling the features back into a heavily worn coin. I’ve seen coins where someone invested who knows how many hours recreating details nearly entirely worn away. That should be detected by the dealer. And if this is the case you have a keeper. Whoever did the work is an artist.

After all that my guess is the weight is a typo and all will come clear when it arrives.

Your dealer sells coins but primarily deals in artifacts. I wouldn’t be too too too surprised if they honestly got this one wrong. They’re a quality dealer and I’m sure they’ll stand behind the coin regardless.

Good luck!

 

As you stated..

Coin ought to weigh 5.5-6g(+/-).

<5g sends up some flags.

<4g = NFW


Perhaps the dealer’s description is a typo. If not, I would return it.

 

Have you weighed the coin to verify the dealer's data? Maybe it's a typo and the weight is really 5.77 gm instead of 3.77.

Cruising through ACsearch I found what might be an obverse die match.

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5893851 Kunker e54 lot 41, 7 May 2019. Failed to sell.


Yours:


Here's a pared-down black outline of your coin's devices superimposed on the Kunker coin. The obverse looks mighty close-- it even has that area of raised metal above the flying clamys.

 

Wow thanks! I guess my example was struck when that particular die got worn out