Raw coins vs graded encapsulated

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Rick B, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I'd just say it's a waste of time to keep trying to help someone that knows everything but that's just me. Either way I think a bunch of you guys are putting in way to much effort on this thread where the help just turns into an argument. Some people just need to learn it themselves
    Morgandude11 likes this.
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  3. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I agree. He is just a troll.
  4. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    I'm truly perplexed at the resistance to the simple and reasonable request to show me the post(s) that I'm being accused of.
    Mountain Man likes this.
  5. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Another rude remark without showing me what you are accusing me of. You and Leighigh have been way more rude than anything I can find in my posts.
    Mountain Man likes this.
  6. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    This is in response to your earlier comment to me about where you dissed slabbed collectors.

    If your intention wasn't to diss people who buy slabbed coins it certainly wasn't interpreted that way; at least by me and obviously others. Personally, you don't have to apologize to me since it wasn't directed at me specifically. Even if it was, I don't need any apology. It is what it is and I get that you like raw coins. However, as you should gather from other comments, there is a place for the TPGs in this hobby; especially for high priced rarities. Even the more experienced collectors aren't experts with all coin series. Some are experts in copper, some silver, some gold, and other a combination of each. I personally would never shell out $1000+ for a coin unless I had another pair of unbiased eyes evaluate it; that's what the TPGs provide most of us.
    Morgandude11 likes this.
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Too bad about the third pillar.
    Lighting a nickels steps luster. And Cartwheel is extremly difficult.
    Morgandude11 and wxcoin like this.
  8. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    That one beginning post is the only one I can find that is at all off base and I have apologized for that one a number of times, saying MANY times that I see the place of TPG's. But I've been incredibly rudely slammed for far more than that. I was told how sarcastic and rude I was. And that post wasn't aimed at anyone. It was the OP.
    That one beginning post is the only one I can find that is at all off base and I have apologized for that one a number of times, saying MANY times that I see the place of TPG's. But I've been incredibly rudely slammed for far more than that. I was told how sarcastic and rude I was. And that post wasn't aimed at anyone. It was the OP. To apologize to Morgan for being sarcastic and rude to him directly I need to see where I did that.
    By the way, for what it's worth, over 20 people "liked" my OP so obviously a lot of people didn't see it as so horribly rude.
  9. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

  10. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Yes, bye. My conclusion is that the posts you and Leighigh have been accusing me of don't exist. I've looked and you've refused to point them out. So bye bye.
    Mountain Man likes this.
  11. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I am positive that is the wrong choice.
    Good luck though many of us have gone down the same road.

    I am confident in my grading skills yet have failed to buy a real collectors piece in a couple of years.
    I prefer raw coins. Might be the study end of it. I think so.
    Gotta say though, cant beat learning the TPG's. If you don't keep up with their ever changing standards, i am afraid that you will never undestand the game. Or, should I say unwritten standards.
    I thought the Newb comment was a little in the face. I hope it got your attention cause there have been more than many experienced numismatist to answer your thread.
    Phil C.
  12. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

    Raw coins VS TPG's. I have to admit, there's something I do enjoy about raw coins. I enjoy interacting with the coin. Weighing it, measuring it, using my Neodymium Magnet Test Coin Slide.

    But with that said, unless I'm buying lower priced coins I always go for the TPG. It's vastly safer for one thing. With the higher priced dates I don't want to buy a problem coin. A TBG slabbed coin is marked if it's a problem or not. Then you got to examine the coin anyway. See for yourself, if it's an acceptable coin for your needs.

    TBG coins are just not point and buy. For example, in my Trade Dollar search there were 2 TD's, both slabbled, both were UNC details(cleaned). One was being sold for $21,000, the other, slightly over $1000. This was an 1876 CC. $21,000 would be the right price for a MS 63, but this one was an UNC details cleaned coin. Since this dealer is a known seller and has been doing this for years he decided to upgrade the coin from the TBG grade. Personally, I would never pay $21,000 for a details UNC TD. That's the kind of choice you're going to have to make when collecting type sets, if ever go that route.

    Coin collecting, if you take it seriously, can be very rewarding and enjoyable. But to do it correctly, it's very complicated.

    There's a lot people here who've been doing this for years, take advantage of that. These people are willing to share their knowledge, so why not learn from them. There's a long running thread about identifying fake Trade Dollars on this site. I've learned a great deal just from that thread alone. I've improved 10 fold since I've been here learning about identifying fake TD's.

    With all that said, TPG's can make coin collecting much more enjoyable. There would be nothing more miserable if you ever wanted to sell your precious raw coin collection and you find out most of them are nothing but junk, melt quality coins. With a TPG coin, the chances are you're going to get a better quality coin.
    wxcoin likes this.
  13. ycon

    ycon Renaissance Man

    As a world and ancient coin collector--with a distaste for slabs (I broke out the only one I've ever bought)--I've read this post with interest.

    One thing I would urge the OP, is that you might consider collecting non-american coins, especially ancient and non-modern world. You'll find a huge wealth of varieties from every point in history from the last 2500 or so years, and a market that for the most part does not care about slabs. With the exception of Heritage and Stacks, nearly every major world/ancient auction house deals primarily in raw coins and almost all of them (as well as any credible dealer on sites like vcoins and mashops) will offer guarantees on authenticity (which the TPG's won't even do for ancient coins).

    Most American ancient collectors I know started out collecting US coins. They moved to ancients for one reason or another--often times including a dislike of slabbing culture. I'm not here to get into an argument with anyone about slabs-- I understand why they exist and also that because they are so prevalent in US collecting there's really no way to get around them. But you might consider a collecting area where the norms are different.

    In the ancients section we would call this a *drive by* posting. ;)
    Sardar, TypeCoin971793 and wxcoin like this.
  14. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    I thought I heard something whizzing by my head:)

    But I agree with you here. If I was an ancient collector then I'd most likely collect raw coins. I have one question for you though. Even ancient collectors have to pause when shelling out big bucks for a rare ancient. Unless an expert in the coinage, wouldn't most of you want the coin authenticated first?
    Sardar and Kentucky like this.
  15. Ray Jackson

    Ray Jackson Member

    Personally, i collect raw most of the time, more affordable. However, i have had my share of slabs in the past and keep them in the slabs. I have some that i have considered having graded, just because of their safety. I put my valuable coins in lock tites, but if i find a slabbed coin, even when its an unreliable company, i never break them out.
  16. STU

    STU Active Member

    I have to agree with chris about slabs verse's counterfeits and the like. I want exact grading for the rare ones and authenticated for coins I have graded as there are a lot of counterfeiters. I do have lots incased for this purpose . I wont hold them as body chemicals could ruin them. I don't throw mine in a dresser I have them in cases for protection and I do look at them lots I have serial numbers what I paid for them and a description and it is not for investment its for my grand kids to enjoy as well as my children as have
  17. TonkawaBill

    TonkawaBill Well-Known Member

    1955-D Lincoln Cent  Beautifully Toned Superby Ms++ Gem++ Bu++.jpg 1955-D Lincoln Cent  Beautifully Toned Superby Ms++ Gem++ Bu++.jpg I'm a raw coin collector and just wondering how alone I am. It seems like most people sell and buy encapsulated third party graded coins. I'm sorry those services ever got started! Half the fun of collecting is learning and grading your own coins and potential purchases. What is so fun about just blindly buying coins that are already graded and tossing them in a drawer?

    I'm with ya Bud, though I suppose 10% of mine are slabbed
    PassthePuck and Rick B like this.
  18. PassthePuck

    PassthePuck Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="Rick B, post: 4620502, member: 113624 What is so fun about just blindly buying coins that are already graded and tossing them in a drawer?[/QUOTE] I buy them because they are graded! I ONLY buy graded coins that are MS 69 or MS 70. I don't buy proofs because they don't hold high value...IMHO! But MS69/70 will bring a higher value because they are MS. I coin collect for investment. Oh, not for me, but for my godson! Now, having said that, I too like finding coins within my pocket change. Because I use a handheld microscope, I ONLY collect coins that are flawless...zero scratches. I got lucky last year when my wife found a gallon container of pennies at work that some lady was just collecting pennies at her desk. She bought all those pennies for me at face value and 80% of all those pennies dating back to the mid 70's had zero scratches on them. They are now in 2x2's and are in my safe!
  19. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    A far greater percentage of ancients collectors learn how to authenticate themselves, but most dealers are bonafide experts with strong guarantees of authenticity and originality. These dealers’ opinions are trusted.

    some collectors send coins to NGC just to get an opinion of authenticity from Barry Murphy, and then crack it out. NGC keeps photo records of all of their coins, so you can prove NGC’s opinion for a certain coin. They have an extremely high correctness percentage (I think less than 10 confirmed fakes of the tens of thousands of ancients certified), so the opinion is highly respected, even though it isn’t guaranteed.

    For ancient Chinese coins, which is my expertise, I can count on two hands the number of people whose authenticity opinions I trust, myself included. I don’t implicitly trust Chinese TPGs because I have seen multiple probable fakes in their holders.
    wxcoin and ycon like this.
  20. zenlib

    zenlib Member

    I never thought I would say this, and I probably won't say it ever again but: all viewpoints that have been expressed here so far are equally valid (weeelll, except for some minor details). I remember when encapsulated grading came into existence and I was very pleased. It was nice to have a Grading God as an authority in arguments. However, I have never used that service myself because I didn't want to pay for it.
    I consider myself a numismatist. I define a numismatist as somebody that has as many books about coins as he does coins. I love everything about this hobby of collecting: history, art, metallurgy, research, and wallowing in my coins piled high in the vaults. That last is an exaggeration; it harkens back to Donald Duck comic books and Scrooge McDuck's vaults of coins. So let us change that last item to thumbing through my collection.
    I collect mainly English coins and Roman Ladies. Mostly my coins are raw but I have a few slabbed and some more that I took out of the slabs. Sometimes I am a collector, sometimes an investor, and sometimes just an accumulator. I have an Edward the Martyr penny that I knew I was overpaying for and really wanted a better specimen; but I know that I will never be able to afford what I want and I doubted that I would see it in affordable grade again.
    My point here is to be aware of why you are doing what you are doing, enjoy it, and remember the words of the Ricky Nelson ballad (now I am truly dating myself): You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself.
  21. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    I respect your thoughts and answers to personal grading. TPG "Those People Greedy." My opinion only thanks for the post be safe.
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