Questions galore -- all input appreciated

Warmest Sunday greetings, fellow forumites (or maybe it should be "fellow Coin Talkers"??)!

First off, let me say how very thankful I am for all the wonderful information I have found here on this forum. The individuals who contribute to this site are an amazingly valuable resource -- and, from everything I can tell, also just a great bunch of folks! -- and I am sincerely grateful to you all!!

I have recently gotten back into coin collecting after maaaaaaany years and have thus been reading through the posts on this and other forums in an attempt to "get a handle" on the hobby (so to speak). I have "accumulated" a number of questions over the past few months and would appreciate whatever input any of you might be willing to provide. (If any of my questions have already been asked/answered elsewhere, please let me know. I tried several forum searches, but I may have inadvertently missed or overlooked some posts.) Anyway, here goes (Warning! This post is a long one ):

1) I decided to try to assemble a collection of the various denominations cent through quarter (for now) from bank rolls of coins and whatever I find in my change. Most of the coins I have found (especially the pre-1980s dates) are already well circulated (scratched, dinged, spotted, etc.), so I'm not worried about trying to keep them in some sort of "pristine" state. That said, though, I do "upgrade" my collection whenever I find a nicer example, so I am concerned with providing at least some amount of protection for my little guys. Based on what I've found/read, it appears that there are three main options as far as albums are concerned:

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  [*]Harris- or Whitman-type folders: You use "light pressure" (i.e., your entire body weight and/or a sledge hammer) to push a coin into its appropriately labelled slot. You can only see the side of the coin that is facing up, and getting the coin out (to exchange it for a nicer looking example) isn't necessarily an easy task... without destroying the folder. ​
  
  
  [*]Dansco- or Whitman-type albums: You slide back the acetate pane and "gently press" the coin into its proper slot, trying not to press too much or too little. When finished, you slide the plastic pane back, hoping not to scratch the surface of the coin. Due to the plastic covering, you can see both the obverse and reverse of every coin -- a definite plus. Removing coins isn't all too difficult, but coins can sometimes fall into the space intended for the plastic panes, thereby making it an "enjoyable" game to get the coin out of the album.​
  
  
  [*]Three-ring binders: You purchase sheets of flip- or 2x2-sized "pocket pages" (Sorry, I'm not sure what to call them exactly.) -- usually 20 square "pockets" per page. You then take your coin, already nicely sealed in its own 2x2 or flip, and slide it into a pocket. You can see both sides of the coin, but you're now looking through two layers of some type of plastic (from the 2x2 or flip and then from the pocket itself). There aren't any pre-labelled slots (which, I guess, could be viewed as either a plus or a minus), so you would have to use adhesive or paper labels to identify the various coins... if you want. Coin removal isn't difficult.​

So, are there any other basic folder/album types that I haven't listed? The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking for some kind of hybrid -- something that's relatively inexpensive (like the Harris folders) but that allows you to see both sides of the coins (like the Dansco albums) without having to put each coin in a flip or 2x2. I had thought about just using the "pocket pages" alone -- sticking the coins directly into the pockets, without a flip or 2x2 -- but all the ones I've seen have a hole at the bottom of each pocket, so the smaller coins (cents, dimes) might fall out. Any folder/album ideas??? As I mentioned earlier, I'm not dealing with any uncirculated or even AU coins. I just want a way of being able to see what I have (and what's still missing) without spending a fortune.


2) Related to #1 above, I have read here and elsewhere that ALL paper-based products will cause coins to tone due to the sulphur content. If I put nice bright RD Lincoln cents into a Harris folder, is there any way to know what they'll come out looking like? Are we talking ugly grays and greens... or nice purples and reds? I assume that either type of toning won't occur overnight, but would it be okay to leave the cents there for, say, a year or two without doing too much damage? I honestly have no idea what to expect from folders or albums, both in terms of type of toning and length of time before anything noticeable appears. I understand, though, that, unless the coins are sealed in a vacuum, they will tone through exposure to the air... so I'm not looking for some 100% guaranteed solution (since I couldn't afford any type of Intercept Shield album or whatever).


3) For the few nicer coins that I have, I am looking to get some of the "Air-Tite" holders. They come in two varieties -- "direct-fit" and "ring-type". Is there a benefit to either type (aside from the possibility of adding a colored ring)? With the ring-type holders, how would you go about inserting a proof coin?? It would seem that some sort of downward pressure would need to be applied to push the coin into the ring... and wouldn't that end up scratching the coin's surface?


4) Another coin storage question. I've read everywhere about the evils of PVC. Is there any way to tell if any of the Ziploc-type bags or the Tupperware-type plastic containers are made with PVC? I wasn't sure what to do with the various coins that I have (they are all in either a flip or a 2x2), so I just put them in a Ziploc bag. I was also thinking about storing my mint and proof sets in larger plastic containers (like the Tupperware or Rubbermaid kind). Could there be any problems with either of those storage options?


5) One last coin storage question. I have also read that, when coins are sealed in a container (like the types mentioned in #4 above), humidity can become a potential concern. I was thus looking at the various desiccant possibilities. Any thoughts? Silica gel vs. clay?? The small 40g size seems like it would be good for a larger plastic bin/container, and I like the fact that you can "recharge" it when necessary (as opposed to the smaller packets that you just throw out). Any advice or input on what might be helpful (and whether the desiccant is simply "overkill"/unnecessary... assuming I'm not living in the tropics)?


6) Finally -- yep, this is my last question (for now, at least ) -- I was wondering if anyone can clarify the exact meaning of the verb "to make" when used to speak about coins submitted for grading. Here are some examples -- all taken from this thread, if you want to see them in context:

- One poster shows off a 1967 SMS JFK half. The next one replies, "It used to annoy me that you made one of those... until I made three."

- Then the reply to the above statement: "Yes, but you can never take this away, Russ: I made one before you did!"

- "...I also made a 1967 SMS DCAM Jeff on the same submission..."

I understand that they're talking about receiving a submitted coin back with a high grade (or they obviously wouldn't be so proud of their submission). But I still don't get the choice of verb in this case (and I've seen it in this same type of context numerous times). By saying that I "made" a certain coin/grade, does that mean that I found the coin raw and, having recognized with my wealth of knowledge and experience that this is an amazing (or amazingly rare?) coin, submitted it for grading? I mean, my impression is that these individuals would not use the verb "to make" for a graded coin that they purchased, correct? So there has to be some aspect of finding the coin (in an ungraded state?) and then submitting it for grading. Would it thus be possible to say "I made a 1967 VF-35" (for some given coin), or does that phrase only apply to "top pop" coins?? Just curious.



Well, if you've managed to read this far, then you truly deserve my deepest gratitude!!!! I apologize for such a lengthy post. I will do my best to keep future posts shorter (but, as you have probably already guessed, I'm kind of a wordy guy).

Thanks for whatever input you can provide!

Best wishes for a relaxing Sunday evening.

- Andrew

 

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Hi and Welcome...as soon as I have time I will try to look at more of your questions but here is one--

I think he was talking about getting a better graded coin...they send in coins to a Grading Co. and when they get them back they like to show off how high of grade they got...the one guy was sad because his coin didn't make the higher grade.

Speedy

 

Hi Andrew,
I just started posting here myself. I'll admit I enjoy the coins I have in albums more then the ones in holders. I go thru rolls of cents from the bank looking for varieties. I have had some moderate sucess so far.
I am not a fan of toning so I can't comment on that or the baggies. I would be afraid of moisture in ziplock or tupperware.
I read the thread on the other forum about "making" coins. Yes if they find it raw or I suppose even cross it from another holder they consider it one they made. I guess because they caused a change in the population report.
Good luck your post was a nice read. Joe

 

If you are speaking specifically about the brand "Ziploc" you can rest assured that it contains no vinyl (PVC). Ziploc brand bags are made of polyethylene which is generally fairly non-reactive with metals. So also are actual "Tupperware" products, at least the flexible storage containers. Tupperware did experiment with some hybrid ceramics a while back for use in the oven and microwave but they weren't really designed for long-term storage and weren't close to being air-tight. Other brands of flexible plastic storage containers (i.e. Rubbermaid) are generally either polyethylene or polypropylene, both of which are fairly non-reactive. The clearer more rigid plastics are often PET plastic or polyethylene terephthalate which is itself a highly stable plastic. There are some cheap no-name brands which are still made of vinyl but if you steer clear of those you should be okay. But amen to the silica dessicants.

 

Welcome to the forum Brocster. I took a vacation from coin collecting of about 35-40 years so I know just what you are going through. I'll just comment on a couple of points, and leave the rest for others.

Actually there are pages made with no hole at the bottom of the pockets, but you still don't want to put coins directly into them. The 2x2s are designed so that sealing/stapling the edges stretches the mylar windows, and the coins don't move; but placed directly into the plastic page pockets they will slip and slide. Besides rubbing on the plastic, they will rub on any bit of dirt or other foreign matter which may get trapped in the pocket, resulting in scrapes, scratches and small hairlines.

You don't want to use direct fit holders that aren't the exactly correct size, or the coins can receive dings from movement. That's a particular concern with world coins, which don't always match the dimensions of U.S. money. The ring material can be stretched a little, and one way is to gently pull the ring out, place it over the coin, and let it retract. I don't think it's a good idea, but some folks might.

Not only Ziploc brand, but any plastic material intentionally sold for use in food storage should be PVC-free.

Slipping and sliding on hard surfaces, and banging into each other, is never ever good for coins, and it can be disasterous for proofs and mint state coins to be loosely put in plastic containers. However, if you are talking about putting sets in their mint-provided packaging into containers with airtight lids, it is an excellent way to storet them away from the tarnishing effects of air and moisture; so long as you put something else in the containers to keep the packages from sliding around.

 

Many thanks to those who have replied (or even just taken the time to read through to the end of my extra-long post)!!! I really appreciate it!

Speedy -- Thanks for your explanation. It's always good to get others' input... just to make sure that my interpretation isn't totally off.


Joe -- Glad to see I'm not the only lurker-turned-recent poster. I, too, wasn't a big fan of toning... initially. But I've seen a few coins that were covered in the most unbelievably gorgeous colors... that I think I've become a "convert" (at least partially). Here's one that I own:

​

And that toning is not even close to some of the amazing coins I've seen. But I agree that brown or gray edge toning on an otherwise blast-white coin can be less than desirable.

Thanks, also, for your take on the "made" post. I guess I never even considered the possibility of a submission crossing. Hmmm.... Either way, though, it still sounds a bit strange to me that someone can state that they made a coin.


Illya2 -- Great information on the Ziploc bags and other containers!! I'm glad to hear it, as I'm not a big fan of that PVC-induced green "slime" stuff. Thanks! Any ideas on what kind of and/or how much desiccant I should use in, say, a shoebox-size container?


Roy -- I appreciate all the info you provided. I guess I never thought about the "after-effects" of putting a circulated coin into one of those plastic pockets -- it would almost definitely leave some sort of (unwanted) residue that could then end up scratching any other coins that might be stored there. I'll definitely stay away from that option!

As for the air-tite holders, I would only be using them for U.S. coinage, so I hopefully wouldn't have to worry about the holders being (even slightly) the wrong size. Hmmm... the idea of stretching the ring and letting it shrink back around the coin does seem like a good one. Why do you not recommend it?? And what method(s) would you recommend for inserting coins into the holders without damaging anything (either the coin or the holder/ring)???

And thanks for the PVC-related info. But don't worry, I would never think of putting loose coins (especially not proof coins) into some bag or other container. I would be storing the proof and mint sets in the Tupperware-type container in their original boxes.



Well, thanks again to everyone for the terrific information! You guys are awesome!

- Andrew

 

Thanks, GDJMSP, for your thoughts and the additional information!!! I really appreciate it!

I guess I'll have to reconsider (or would it be "re-reconsider"?) the "plastic pocket"-type of album. I agree that it's the most flexible and adaptable of the various possibilities, and I can always create my own labels (if I so choose).


Once again, THANK YOU all for the wonderfully helpful information!!!

- Andrew

 

Regarding Air-Tites, both ring-type and direct-fit.

The ring-types are available at just about every millimeter size over a range up to about 40mm, and there are bigger ones beyond that. There are a small number of outside case diameters (holder size A, H, T, I, etc.) with the much more varied sized inside foam rings that accommodate all the different sized coins. You buy the Air-Tite per the foam ring size, and then you can buy display cards or album cards to fit the case outside diameters. The foam comes in different colors.

The direct-fit holders don’t have a ring and use the inside diameter of the holder to hold the coins in place. The outside diameters, again, are just in a few sizes (the same A, H, T, and I), but usually are a smaller case size than for the same coin in a ring-type. For a while the direct-fits were very limited, just ASE, silver dollar, half, and quarter, I think. Recently small cent, dime, and nickel were added to the direct-fit lineup.

I realize you know all this, but I thought I’d use the opportunity to inform anyone else who might be interested.

I think the direct-fits look better, and I moved my ASE collection over to them. My type set I left in ring-types. My AGEs don’t have a direct-fit size, so I use the ring-types for them. I suspect, but don’t really know, that the coins are safer in the ring-types. It seems to me that the foam ring must be softer than a direct-fit next to the coin edge, and I think might do a better job of holding the coin in place, preventing it from sliding around in the case. However, I can’t say that I ever detected one of my ASEs moving around in the direct-fit holder. And, if the direct-fit holders actually used a curved (perpendicular to the coin face) inside rim or something to grip the coin so that it can’t move, then the direct-fit might offer more protection in a situation where you dropped the coin on the holder edge, and a coin in a ring-type was able to momentarily compress the foam ring and thus slide a tiny bit. Just speculation on my part.

 

Bacchus,

Thanks for the informative little excursus on air-tite holders!!

In all seriousness, though, I do sincerely appreciate the detailed information you provided. I'll probably end up going with the regular (ring-type) holders, only because they're cheaper. My biggest concern was simply how I would get the coins into the rings without dropping, scratching or otherwise mishandling them (both the coins and the rings!). But I guess if "the masses" haven't yet risen up in protest against the Air-Tite corporation, then I should be okay.

Thanks again for the info!

- Andrew

 

Not at Mitchell’s site (looking at the holders for U.S. quarter: 0.43 for direct-fit, 0.47 for ring-type):

http://www.air-tites.com/

nor at J.P.’s site (looking at the holders for U.S. quarter: 0.42 for direct-fit, 0.47 for ring-type):

http://www.jpscorner.com/default.htm

 

No, I'm just saying the direct-fits are cheaper than the ring-types.

Mitchell's and J.P.'s are the two cheapest sources for Air-Tites than I know of.

 

Hi again, Bacchus!

Hmmm... I'm glad you brought that up. I guess my memory isn't all it used to be. I had looked at two main sites for the holders -- JP's Corner and Brent-Krueger. At JP's, as you noted, the direct-fit holders are cheaper, and I guess it makes sense that the plastic holder alone would be less expensive than the plastic holder + ring. With Brent-Krueger, though, it's the opposite situation: ring-type holders are 64¢ each and the direct-fit ones are 69¢ each -- it seems that Brent-Krueger uses a "cost-averaging" approach (not sure if that's the correct Economics term), which might explain why their direct-fit holders are more expensive. I must've just assumed, based on B-K's site, that all direct-fit holders were more expensive.


And speaking of JP's Corner, does anyone have any experience buying from him? The site looks solid enough, and his prices are certainly low. But then I ran across this statement on the Brent-Krueger website:

One other thing you need to look out for. Our product is factory-sealed in blister packaging, not re-packed from bulk product, thrown loose in a bag, that you'll find sold by many coin supply dealers at a discount. The advantage of original Airtite blister packaging is that you won't receive scratched, finger-smudged holders or rings, or product that has collected dust and moisture, which ultimately ends up on your coin surfaces.


For now, I don't need to buy all that many holders, so a 20¢ difference (or so) won't kill me... if it's worth it (in terms of how JP's holders come packaged -- loose or blister-packed).


Isn't it amazing how one question invariably gets resolved only by bringing up two or three more?!?


Well, thanks, again, for the info! I appreciate it!!!

- Andrew

 

Thanks a BUNCH, GDJMSP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your word's more than enough for me.


Have a terrific evening!

- Andrew

 

lol GD i thought u were a mitchells fan?

 

No, that's me.

And every time I mention Mitchell's, somebody else (or several somebodys) brings up J.P.'s !