what is the lowest grade that a wheat can contain luster. and I have some wheats where only the high points have luster this dosent make sense to me . wouldnt the high points lose luster first
im not sure if your answers are correct i have ef that have slight luster around the rims ect and ive read that ef can have luster. and on the secound question what were you saying yes to
Actually brighter high points indicate wear. When a coin begins to tone and ultimately becomes toned, you get an overall darker or colored surface on the coin. As the coin wears through AU down to XF, let's say....The high points like the cheekbones of Lincoln on a cent have the toning worn off revealing the "luster" under the points of slight wear. Also, coins in the XF range could still have some Mint luster remaining.
Yes, the high points of a toned AU or XF are usually lighter in color than the rest of the coin. But that is not because when the toning is worn off it reveals the luster underneath the toning. There can be no luster on the points with wear. Even light wear destroys the luster. The only reason the high points are lighter in color is because the toning is worn away revealing the lighter colored metal under it. They not only could have some luster left, they should have some luster left. If they do not, then there is a good chance the coin is not really XF. Both the ANA and PCGS grading standards use this criteria. The luster requirement really splits between XF45 and XF40 - 45 requires it, 40 does not. There are exceptions however for with some heavily toned coins luster may no longer be visible because of the toning and the difference is decided by remaining detail. It is on VF coins where things change regarding luster. Most VF coins will at least have some luster present in the protected areas like around the legends or inside the loops of letters and numbers, or inside the protected areas of the devices. And sometimes there will even be a little bit left on the fields. VF35 is after all just 1 step away from XF40. But as you go lower in the VF grades luster begins to fade away completely. That said, it is not unheard of to find traces of luster still present on some lower graded coins, but it is not really common either.
ok so that would mean coins where the high oints are shiny and almost the orginal color would be cleaned/polished?
No, it doesn't mean that at all. You can take any toned coin out of your pocket change, lay it down on a table or counter top, rub the coin back an forth for a few seconds, and the high points will be lighter in color. This is exactly the same thing that happens during the normal course of circulation. The only difference is you are doing it faster by rubbing it across the table/counter. And that is definitely not polishing or harsh cleaning. Now could there be a similar effect produced by harsh cleaning or polishing ? Yes there could. But it would only be similar - not the same.
I will disagree...ANA says as to EF45, "Some of mint luster may show" EF40 "Traces of mint luster may show". It does not indicate that mint luster must show. Also, many coins graded MS60+BN (Brown) technically have no mint luster. Also, I put the word "Luster" in quotes in my statement to indicate something that I should have said more plainly. When the toning wears off the high points of a circulated but toned AU coin, it is really the metal that is exposed as it begins to show wear. It's not really "luster" but it gives the impression that the luster is appearing on the high points. Also, saying that VF35 is only a step away from EF40 is not quite accurate. Ist's like saying that MS60 is one step away from MS65. It's not correct. Technically, in theory there is VF35, 36, 37,38 and 39 but we don't break it down that way in a normal grading system. The difference between VF35 and EF40 is bigger than one step away. The ANA mentions nothing about luster on VF graded coins.
Afraid I shall have to disagree with you disagreeing, here's why. Yes, it does say that in the forward of the book, but if you look at the individual coins where the grade descriptions are given for XF45 that phrase is - Part of the mint luster is still present. (Except on the earliest coinage {usually 1828 and earlier}, and copper coinage.) So yes, the luster is required to be there for an XF45. As for copper, I mentioned above that there are exceptions where toning can cover up the luster, this applies to copper, silver, and nickel. Copper coins graded as BN obviously fall in that category. But any copper collector will tell you that there are a great many MS BN copper coins that have a glow about them. That glow is the luster still showing through the brown toning. It even happens on some AU BN copper coins. But I agree it is not true in every case. And yes, VF35 is 1 step away from XF40, there are no grades in between those two like there are in the MS grades. And I didn't say the ANA did say anything about luster on VF coins. I was merely pointing out what can be seen on some VF coins.
Please let me know if I need to update I'm using the text from the 2005 version, 6th edition as it pertains to Lincoln cents. That's what I used as I quoted the text for EF and VF. My book uses EF and not XF. The EF stands for Extremely Fine. You're right though. Some descriptions, particularly on nickels say that luster is still present in EF. They are inconsistent in the sections including silver coinage some say may be present while some say it is still present. Since the original question pertained to a wheat cent, I didn't go into the other EF descriptions. So overall, we agree, mint luster should be present on some coins graded EF but not all Ah, the inconsistencies of coin collecting Fun Stuff have Fun, Bill
I was using the same book you were Bill. As for a need to update, yeah we both need to do so. The 7th edition of the ANA standards was released a few weeks ago. And from what I understand from others, I don't have a copy yet myself, there have been some changes made to some of the grading standards - again.
