Do any of you have an opinion on how well IGC grades the ancients? The latest Bowers Auction has several nice pieces, but as I am very limited in this area of numismatics, I thought that I would ask. Here is a good example: http://bowersandmerena.com/auctions...d=&psearch=&frompage=listings.chtml&magnify=1 Is this particular coin a bit of a stretch for AU?
That is one of the nicest 8 escudo cobs I have ever seen. I believe it to be graded accurately. It is only my opinion of course - but I rather think ICG is far better at grading these coins than PCGS. I have seen PCGS grade coins no where near as nice as that one as MS - numerous times. But this coin hardly qualifies as an ancient. But when it comes to grading ancients - ICG is THE company. I'm sending you a PM Nd with the name, web site and email address for the guy who literally wrote the book on Spanish colonial coinage. Compared to him - I am but a newbie.
Well as I wrote this thread, I was looking at the Roman coins also offered in the upcoming auction. Since I am very unfamiliar with these coins and the ability to grade them accurately, I thought that I would ask. A few of you here are much more well versed in this area than I am. I have viewed a few different slabs with mixed results. Seems as if world gold and ancients have a different system than the one that I am familiar.
Not really - it's just that you have to make certain adjustments. When grading US coins what do you do ? Take into account the method of manufacture, the mint, what a true MS coin looks like etc etc. It's the same principles. Where the real differences are is in the method of manufacture - for example milled coins vs hammered coins. Just like certain US issues are known for weak strikes - so are some milled world coins. And for this allowances are made. Hammered coinage is another whole world. Weak strikes are the rule - not the exception. So to find an example without all the detail on the devices is common. So is planchet quality. All they cared about was the weight being right. So many planchets, or flans as they are called, have somewhat irregular shapes and are not perfectly round. And you may also find many with adjustment marks. Often even MS coins will look like somebody went after them with a chainsaw. It takes a while - but you'll get used to it
LOL !! I somehow knew you were gonna ask that question. Have you ever noticed that I rarely have anything to say in regard to early colonial copper ? Well that's because I know next to nothing about early colonial copper But in theory - yes. At least from what I do understand. Just think of all the ways you learned to tell how to grade - use them. As I said - the principle is the same. It just takes a while to get used to the baseline reference.
I am afraid that I will use the basic principles. In grading U.S. coins there is always a basic primer to work with. While varying degrees work with each mint, the process is easy to understand. With early coppers, the process of grading begins with the planchets and works from there. With my limited knowledge in ancients and world coins, I do not want to go into the learning process by comparing the current standards for U.S. coins. Of course, I will be picking up a few items at the Baltimore show to start a little personal referrence in which to work from. Now I am limited to dealing with a few trusted dealers. Like most, they are guarding their knowledge like they are state secrets. The few referrence books that I have been reading are limited in their grading standards. They all lean towards identification. As I am not so worried about counterfeits as I am grading, this makes it harder. As with the cob that I linked to in this thread, there are several varieties of this coin. Making it difficult to nail down a value. With limited exposure to the open market, this also makes it difficult to place a good value. From the few details that I have learned, this particular piece should sell in the 3500 to 4000 dollar range. I have been dedicating two hours a day to world and ancient studies. (Darn coin business getting in the way ) At this rate, I should have a good working knowledge in 20 years or so
It'll hardly take you 20 yrs But getting used to variances can take a while. I myself wouldn't dream of attempting to grade ancients - but with coins from the late medieval to date I feel fairly comfortable in most cases. You will too - before ya know it
You and I both know that numismatics is a life long study. While a working knowledge comes in a short period of time, I am always a student of the hobby. Thank you GD.
I can grade some early medieval coins as well as the later one. But i haven't finetuned my grading of these yet so i sometimes overgrade or undergrade on some hammered issues. It's a learning curve alright.
I dunno how GD does it, but my methodoligical approach to hammered was to find a picture (or even look at a specimen in a museum) in the best grade possible, see what details should be there and the overall look of the piece. Then compare all future specimens to that with regards to the grading. Obviously taking into account the differentials between any one issue (class) and the next as far as the catalogue shows. So for example Henry VIII groats with his young portrait are often encountered mid struck, with well struck examples being available. These were struck in soft high quality silver. His old age portrait groat are struck from base silver and are often appallingly struck. So finding one with a complete portrait regardless of the legend strike or the overall roundness of the coin is the holy grail.
With other coins like those of William II or Henry IV it's not so much finding a well struck example but actually finding an exaple at all. Or even half of one would be a start.
