Question about toning

Is it possible to artificially tone a coin while it's in a TPG slab. Reason I ask is there's a seller now on ebay with at least 8 to 10 slabbed error coins, most of which are toned. Seems too coincidental. I'm not interested in buying any of them but it just had me wondering if maybe an unscrupulous seller could artificially tone some coins and list them for more money than they'd normally be worth. Any thoughts?

 

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If the TPG slab is one of the well known big companies and not messed with, not very often, If a do-it-yourself slab, then yes, but usually done before insertion of the coin in a slab. Your wondering could be exactly true, but hard to say without actually seeing them.

p.s. Those who do so usually do too strongly as novices buying may thonk it enhances value. IMO, jim

 

Here's one of his listings. They are all PCGS slabs I believe. Now if PCGS received the coins and they deemed them to be artificially toned wouldn't they give it a Details grade for questionable color?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204657730842

 

The answer to your first question: Could a coin be artificially toned while encased in the major TPG slab? I think the answer is yes, but it would probably take a while. The slabs are not fully hermetic but they are fairly tight so if the slab was surrounded by a toning gas for a long period of time, then some of that toning gas would get into the slab.

The second question is answered by the PCGS TrueView. I looked it up myself and the coin in the PCGS site looks the same to me as the coin you showed a Trueview of. I think it most likely that if PCGS thought the coin was artificially toned when they had it raw for the TrueView photos, then they would have identified it as such. They did not do so. At least as far as the market graders at PCGS are concerned, this particular coin is at the very least market-acceptable to them.

 

Yes, it's easy. Regarding these slabbed ones, why are you assuming they toned in the slabs?

 

It is possible to alter a coin inside a slab-there have been cases where people have gassed slabs.

However, this is not a case of anyone messing with the slabs. There are sellers that focus on toned coins, so it is quite normal to see dozens or more slabbed toned coins in their inventory. The seller here (from the eBay link in an earlier post) is someone I know that sells plenty of toned coins. I have seen him post on Instagram and eBay (plus bought a few coins before). He buys plenty of toners raw and then sends them to PCGS to grade. He also buys already certified coins and resells those. There is nothing unusual going on here.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the toning on those coins. I think he is a bit high priced but that is about it.

 

I've seen eBay sellers that were clearly gassing their coins in the slabs -- triangular areas of neon toning, coinciding with the three prongs of the holder. It's apparently dead easy to get gas into the slabs (vacuum pumps are a thing), but harder to make the result look convincing. Certainly no TPG would ever pass the coins I saw.

 

Just curious. I love naturally toned coins, not artificial. I used to think if you bought graded toned coins you were safe, that the toning is natural otherwise it would get a details grade. Just trying to determine if they can be toned after slabbing. Would hate to accidentally buy a slabbed artificially toned coin.

 

It is possible for coins to tone in the slab, naturally or artificially. If you're unsure, it's always a good idea to check TrueViews or other TPG-hosted images when they're available. The best thing, though, is to learn to identify market-acceptable toning yourself, and to rely on reputable sellers while you're learning. From the other comments on this thread, it looks like you've found one.

 

Years ago on a different forum a well known member was caught gassing slabs. Other members were able to post images of the coins before they were worked on. The guy came clean and told how he was doing it. Something to do with creating a vacuum chamber.

 

Easy. Create a vacuum with slab inside the chamber. Leave it in the vacuum until the pressure stabilizes, ie, same inside the slab as in the vacuum chamber. Then flood the chamber with your toning gas to a slightly positive pressure. The vacuum inside the slab will draw the toning gas into the slab.

How long for each step is a matter of guesswork and experimentation. How to create a vacuum is simple especially if you have friend who is a AC/refrigeration tech. You dont need a deep vacuum anyway. There are other ways to create a vacuum but I'll leave that up to the curious to do their own research.

I'm not divulging any deep, dark secrets here. This is simple engineering and tinkering knowledge

 

I'm also seeing more pressure vessels on Amazon lately, apparently for impregnating resins into porous materials. Basically a pressure-cooker in reverse, with somewhat lower stakes safety-wise.

 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. The TPGs don't know what they're doing with these things. I'd just focus on the technical aspects and value the toning however you will. No coin should be kept off the market for some bozo who can't even define the arbitrary term calling the toning "artificial." But the TPGs get away with that game all the time because they know we love to believe they're holier than thou. Buy what appeals to you on the theory others will see it and find it appealing, too, and forget their game, it's just that, a game. You don't believe it, ask one of them to define it, see what you get. And they tried like heck back when PCGS was going head over heels after the so-called "coin doctors." Their complaint sat in federal court for six months through a continuance before it was dismissed out because it was never served on any of the named defendants. Their Collector's Universe coin board was so indoctrinated by that time they speculated the named defendants in the class action suit, again, who were never served a complaint, somehow settled out of court. And hysteria over coin doctoring ensued. Don't fall for it. Don't take them seriously, there's your bottom line. Buy what you like, and to hell with their take on toning. If you need to get slabbed, look at what they're calling "market acceptable," that's how you do that. Blast-white dipped coins grade all the time. Toned coins don't always grade because the TPGs believe they're so exceptional they can sit in judgement of something they can't even so much as define half-way intelligibly, and that's a big crock. And I'm just getting warmed up, but that's a piece of it.

 

Once the mint sees the value of selling "toned " coins for several times the price
of a straight silver coin, all COLORS will be fair $$$$$$$$$. e

 

Anything chemical is Natural, so toning with chemicals must be natural also. Do we want to fight mother nature like the TPGers ?

 

What exactly is "toning gas" and is it mainly for silver coins.

 

Good question. I couldn't find that term anywhere. I imagine that in the case explained covers all coins that are known to tone.