I usually post on the Ancients threads as that is what I mostly collect. However I discovered a Shield Nickel way back in my older US coins that somehow I had put in a box as I had no idea what to do with it. A you can see it is a Shield Nickel dated 1869 but what makes it a bit unusual is what appears to be the Masonic counterstamp on the obverse. What I want to know is does something like this add to, detract from, or have no effect on its value. I have no use for it but I have no idea how its otherwise VG wear would determine what I would ask for it in cash or trade. Thanks for anything you can tell me about this kind of counterstamp. It seems to have circulated for some time from its wear.
Very cool, & it does look like an old counterstamp. So here's the conundrum: While some people actually do actively collect counterstamps, & some merely have some in their collection (me & you, for example), it actually reduces the value of an otherwise collectable specimen. So while it may have some value to someone, most serious collectors try to avoid "problem" coins. Mason marks seem to be fairly common as far as counterstamps go...it's a unique society. I find them interesting & it starts me wondering about the "worldly experiences" the coin has had. Hope this helps...I'm sure others will add comments soon, as this is an interesting topic.
Thanks. That was a nice reply. I had no idea that Masonic counterstamps were that common. In ancient coins there is considerable interest in the counterstamps as they are almost always from some government entity revaluing coins according to circumstances, like what to do with the coinage of hated and dethroned rulers or changing the worth of a coin in the marketplace because of constant, steady inflation and debasement of the coinage. I do wonder, however, what the reason would be for Masonic counterstamps. Souvenirs from a convention? Gifts to orphaned kids to spend at Christmas?
Reasons may vary from someone involved in the organization to someone having found a counterstamp as a curiosity piece in a thrift or antique shop and using a coin to see what it looked like. The dies for the example posted below were made by a retired employee of the Philadelphia Mint, but I have no idea if he was a Mason. He gave me numerous specimens as gifts because he knew I collected coins. Chris
Can you post a better image of the date? I have to laugh at the attemp to re engrave the leaf on RL 2 there were a lot of missing leaf 1869 's . If you look at RL 2 notice the outer leaf...compare it to the other outer leaves. So many 1868 and 69 shields were engraved missing the outer leaf RL 2 so what do you do re engrave each die by hand.
These tend to have additional value if the lodge number were stamped on it also. That would give it provenance and possibly determine it's age other than the date. Older lodges sometimes have historical displays and therin would lie the possible value.
There is a coin show for my county every second Sunday of the month that takes place in the local Masonic Lodge. Maybe I should just show it to them?
I would think that would be a spectacular plan. While most folks would regard that stamp as damage, a Mason would likely appreciate the history associated with the piece.
The leaf was missing on the master hub, so it had to be hand engraved into EVERY 1866, 67, 68, and some of the 69's. Then a new master hub was mad that had the leaf. What you want to look for on those years are coins from dies where they forgot to engrave the leaf. The missing leaf varieties do have a following.
Well, Masons are a proud group (as I understand - I am not one) & they have a unique & readily identifiable logo/symbol. As @tommyc03 already mentioned, sometimes you'll find the Lodge # on it as well. As for why people do these things, it just seems to be how we're "wired". I have some notes in my collection which have stamps on them (an Irish bar, for example) which I like. Then there are the "short snorters", full of autographs. Not to mention "Lucky Penny" advertising, of which I have a few special ones. And "love" tokens. There is really no end to what we will do to a coin (or note), & that doesn't mean it becomes non-collectable. And you brought up a good point regarding ancients. And that's kind of the greatness of what we do - there really is no right & wrong for collecting - it's what we (individually) like. If there are 1 million of us with collections, there are 1 million different collections!
Try this one. By the way, do I detect some small print within V of the countermark? With daylight tomorrow I'll try for a better picture.
There shouldn't be any lettering there. The "V" is a masons square and should have measurement hashmarks.
