Prove me wrong: Market Acceptable does NOT mean problem free.

Below is an example of a coin I saw last week for sale. I was actually not going to share it, but due to the discussion in a recent thread, I feel it is a good example that displays the fact that just because a TPG slaps a straight grade on a coin does not mean it is problem free. I can beyond a reasonable doubt say that it has been cleaned, and a Numismatic mentor of mine agreed. PCGS deemed it market acceptable. This is just one of countless coins I have seen, both online and in-hand, that has had problems and deemed "market acceptable".

Market Acceptable does NOT mean problem free.

 

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You are 100% correct - market acceptable coins may have been cleaned a while ago and toned over since, or had a light cleaning not enough to give the coin a details grade, etc.

 

But, the cleaning does negatively affect the value, details grade or not.

 

opcorn:

 

Get your popcorn, Typecoin- this is gonna be good.

 

Neither does original ect. Everything is a matter of semantics. We're talking about coins a century or two old and a line has to be drawn somewhere. The amount of coins that we can reasonably infer were never ever cleaned once is minuscule and probably no one here can afford them aside from the morgans getting pulled out of original bags.

Anything Probably AU 53/55 could have been cleaned at one point and recirculated to hide it ect. Some people used to spit shine their change, a hotel even washes change for it's guests, for many decades cleaning was seen as a positive not a negative ect.

 

Picking fights is stupid.

 

I'm not picking fights I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.

 

Strange, why is that coin in a Problem Free Holder?

 

Because the infallible folks at PCGS felt the washed out, stripped surface was market acceptable.

If this were cracked and sent to NGC it would be put in a details holder in a heartbeat.

 

I see what you’re getting at, but it’s just arguing semantics. In general, a coin that is sitting in a PCGS or NGC slab with a straight grade is considered “problem free” due to the fact that most folks accept that they are an authority on what is and isn’t worthy of a straight grade.

That doesn’t mean TPG’s are right 100% of the time, that anyone who trusts them to set the standard in the market for what is or isn’t a details coin is a mindless sheep worthy of ridicule, or that a dealer who calls a coin with an old cleaning in an XF40 slab “problem-free” should be tarred and feathered. It’s just what the phrase is generally accepted to imply. You guys know there is still tremendous value in knowing the difference...that separates you from the casual collector, it’s cool to be at that level! You earned it with your time and effort! Rejoice!

 

Sigh. There could have been a good discussion but it's not possible with these silly posts

Gerry Fortin blog post 11-16-2018

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/DailyBlog.htm

"How about venting about PCGS grading after receiving grades for the better Liberty Seated half dimes in the Dr. Glenn Peterson Dansco album? 11 of 35 submitted coins were assigned Detailed whatever grades and the balance were conservatively graded. The situation is downright non viable for rolling out old time collections. I'm now with others that will be halting PCGS submissions or shifting to NGC."

 

So, in other words, PCGS felt the cleaning was not harsh enough to deserve a details holder, and therefore, was not a problem.

And you don’t know what NGC would do.

You are starting an argument about accepted nomenclature. I didn’t invent the term problem free holder, but the term exists, and it refers to a coin that has been straight graded. I’m not sure how many ways I need to explain this to you.

If a mint state coin has a small mark or scratch, it lowers the numerical grade. At some point if you increase the size of the mark or scratch, it no longer becomes a grade limiter, it becomes a problem, and the coin gets a details grade. All the things you consider problems are judged on severity. If they are market acceptable, the coin is placed in a straight graded, problem free holder.

 

I think it was net graded by 2 points.

 

Buy the coin, not the holder. Easy solution.

 

Say it louder, so LeHigh can hear.

 

I doubt it. It is a key date after all

 

You're wrong. NGC is the toughest on key Mercs and many key date coins in general. Obviously, they have their share of shenanigans, but nowhere near the levels as PCGS.

 

PCGS also says they won’t grade coins with any sign of an abrasive cleaning. This is the section of their website which lists the “problems” that will warrant no grades. The key word here is “any”.

We know that they do allow cleaned coins with cleaning hairlines into straight-grade holders, which implies their definition of “problem-free” (which they conveniently don’t explicitly give because it would give them a lot of trouble) is also not entirely true.

https://www.pcgs.com/grades

 

The last show I was at had hundreds, if not thousands, of over graded coins and cleaned coins marked as straight grades. They were raw coins though. These are the coins (and dealers) that take advantage of new collectors. The number of poorly graded PCGS coins is nothing compared to what is going on in the raw market. That is the market that needs to be addressed.