Proof70 coins census & distribution

Hi All - I am newly into collecting investment grade coins ( mainly pf70 - gold & silver).
I am coming from the common sense point of view that the rarer a coin the more expensive it is. However in my research i have found PF70 Ultra cameo coins of the same year are priced differently at different vendors - some are almost double the price than most others - and also the census/ population ( for a year) doesnt seem to have that much of a role in the market price.

I would really like to understand how the labels ( Ed Moy, Mike Castle etc and blue/ brown etc ) are determined and by who and why should that affect the price of a pf70 coin. Any help is much appreciated. thank you very much !!!

 

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Often it depends on the vendor. Some charge double the price of others, or you could be like Littleton and charge 10 times more than certain dealers. This is mainly influenced by an ever-changing market for proof coins. Labels really don't matter in my opinion, but auction prices do. On proof coins, it's extremely difficult to tell the exact market value, especially on 70s.

Here's an old saying in numismatics: the market is going to decide the value. All the price guides in the world won't tell you what the market does. You are part of that market, and label importance is left to your discretion.

 

I don't know anything about those labels, but label variations are kind of gimmicky.
As far as "investment grade coins" - that's a loaded phrase. It's a roll of the dice for any series and I wouldn't consider modern proof coins as investments especially.
Collect what you like.

 

@Rubal Dasgupta welcome to CT. Most members here are real (kind-of in some cases) coin collectors. Concerning grading, there are 4 (perhaps 5) reputable grading companies, PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG (and newcomer CAC). All of these would have similar standards for the PF grades and that's about it. The market will set the value for the coins. If I were offered a PF70 coin with each of the 4 or 5 labels, I would probably pick the cheapest, all being of comparable quality. An old saying is "buy the coin, not the slab", with the admonition that price will vary with the grader to some extent. Prices may be all over the map since vendors can ask whatever they want, but since you are dealing with bullion slabs, I would go with the price. Stick around and I'm sure you will hear from lots of other people. Edit: perhaps I err in saying bullion coins

 

Lon says it very well, but I'll state it as well.. invest all you want in gold and silver. Coins are NOT a safe investment beyond melt price silver/gold. If you "Invest" in coins you will lose money.. not make it. I'm dead serious ask any real coin shop owner "Experts" in coins and collecting and you will find most of them are in it for the love of coins as even the experts profits are minimal. Buy coins because you enjoy the art and history you can't go wrong.. Buy them... put them away... forget you ever had them... Your great great grandchildren may make a fortune but you won't live long enough to see a profit on that kind of investment..

Not trying to be mean here... honestly trying to save you heartbreak down the line...

 

Yes I guess I will add - perhaps you're looking at bullion, I didn't take it that way. For bullion, what you want is closest price to spot. There will be a [minimal] premium for a 70 over a 69, but the driving factor of the value will be the spot price.
If you are buying bullion as an investment, that's fine - bullion is a great store of wealth in a diversified portfolio.

Also welcome to CT! Hope you stick around, great people here.

 

Thank you - this has been my philosophy exactly & ive been coilecting coins for a while. The thought of investing in metals for profit just came to my mind recently & thats why i started researching on the value of proof coins beyond the bullion value.

 

I agree - a pf70 of a year is exactly the same as another one from that year & yet there is a significant variance in price even as graded by NGC & i have emailed them this question as well - lets see what they have to say. thanks for replying.

 

I just can't get into modern coins..........unless they are gold. And at these prices, I'm more inclined to sell than buy. Wrong forum, but who here collects English sovereigns? I might ought to post that on the World Coins forum.

 

Take a look at PCGS (or NGC) price guide. You'll see that PR69 or PR70 carry a small premium over spot, but not much.
There seem to be a few outliers though.

 

Sorry, but you think that modern Proof coins in PR-70 holders are "good investments," you are barking up the wrong tree. As a collector, I really like Proof coins, but a lot of collectors don't agree with me. They don't even put Proofs from the 19th century ahead of the business strikes. They prefer really high grade business strike pieces because they are much rarer.

I don't view coins as an "investment." I have been buying and selling some of them for over 60 years. When I was a dealer, all transactions were done with profit in mind. As a collector, profits are great, and I've realized my share because I buy like a collector, but they are not the first goal.

 

Your Plan for collecting, investment, rarity and common sense basis of same, are incorrect.

You will not be successful or comfortable or correct by continuing.

Yes, you could dance and wordsmith and assume and "why"/"why not" the Plan over and over. You will not change what will ultimately be a disappointing outcome.

The number of Sharks waiting for individuals determined to proceed with similar Plans are glad you are on a Path to do so.

Somebody has to tell you: you are not ready to proceed. Read, Read and Read and Learn, Learn, and Learn.

You are welcome.

 

I have met vanishingly few coin dealers who collect coins.

 

Yes, most of them started as collectors, but are collectors no longer.