Probus brockage

I spotted this one go for sale on a coin venue and immediately spotted it as a wrong-un. It comes from modern dies that have been used to create a whole host of fakes including ones used to salt uncleaned coin batches. It got past a fairly experienced dealer who immediately removed it on production of the evidence.

Would you have spotted it? Be careful out there.



Martin

 

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Wow, I'm ganna have to be more careful, probly would have fooled me.it's weird the brockage portrait looks more genuine to me than the other

 

i'm not too familiar with brockage, but it would appear to me that the 2 side don't match for one strike..idk..

 

Looks like the portrait size is too large on the incuse side.

 

Is the edge nick in the wrong place? I'm trying to find a good explanation for this rotation which might point to a two reverse die on one obverse system but that is perhaps a stretch. I don't like the taper of the obverse edges either but there are other explanations for that. Brockage strikes are often a bit more spread out/larger than the coin that made them.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear. This is a modern die part of a set of dies (possibly transfer dies) that has been used to create a whole host of fakes since about 2009. They have been quite creative and tried to push oddities into the market including brockage examples. I have posted this one on Forvm and one collector there believe that he bought another two years ago.

Here is a standard example of the use of this die that doesn't scream out immediately in that the style of the obverse is Rome and it would match with the reverse.



Here is another where the coloration is toned bronze rather then silvered.



The same obverse die is used to create an oddity where the reverse is a Probus coin from Serdica!



Aurelian reverse?



Carus/Carinus/Numerian from Antioch reverse?



I can go on with more and more but I think you get the point. I had not seen an example of the "brockage" before from this die but recognised the die.

The spread nature of the incuse strike is fairly normal for a brockage.

These fakers are always looking to find a creative way to add value from their dies. Creating a few brockage examples and selling them at a premium is obviously worth their while.

Does this help?
Regards,
Martin

 

Dangerous fakes.

 

What is the best way to detect these fakes?

How many fake obverse and reverses are known?

Knowing what die combinations are real and what aren't for such a prolific emperor is pretty hard for the casual Roman series collector (i.e. me).

John

 

The planchet looks wrong to me because it is too perfect.

Is that a correct assessment?

 

A perfect planchet is known in this series too though not regularly.

I did put this montage together in the Forvm fake reports with die links.

 

First one would have fooled me.

 

Sucks that people counterfeit such common coins and so prolifically...

 

That's why I thought it worth bring it to wider attention.

 

Thanks, I bet a lot of people have those fakes in their collections.

So all those coins in your picture are fakes made from various obverse and reverse dies?

Wow, someone is going to a lot of trouble to do this.

They can keep adding to their die collection and create new combinations.

The authorities should track them down rather than worrying about import laws...

:-(

 

Yes. That's one reson I compiled the montage when one seller put all these out over about 3 months. This allowed me to build a picture of the range fo dies at their disposal.