"problem" coins

Hey gang! I am brand new to coin collecting and the bug has bitten me hard! I started by just buying junk silver and ASE's, but while waiting at the coin shop and looking around, I got hooked! I feel like a sponge trying to absorb all of the informtion I can, and I must say it is a bit overwhelming. You guys (and gals) have such a wealth of knowledge that I am constantly amazed. I hope to get to that level some day. I have always had a desire to own one (or more ) of every circulated coin produced in the US (I have since learned it is called a "type set" I believe?)

I have been reading a lot of advice about buying the best grade "problem free" coins you can afford. So my questions for all of the gurus on this board are these:

What constitues a "problem coin"? Can problem coins be found in TPG slabs? Is any one problem more severe than any other problem?

Thanks in advance for any replies!!!

-David

 

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The general term "problem coin", to me at least, means that it has something wrong with it and it could never receive a grade. Some types of these 'problems' are scratches, damaged surfaces due to toning or pitting, rim dings, etc.. things like that. These types of coins can make it into a slab, but it will not get graded and instead would receive something like: "uncirculated detail: damaged" or "Genuine: Questionable color" etc..

I have purchased problem coins and regret doing so..

Also, welcome to CT and collecting. Once you eneter the family, you cannot leave.

 

Also cleaned coins are problem coins.

 

Thanks gbroke! So toning is considered surface damage, and is actually a problem? Judging by some of the threads on the board, it seems like toning is something collectors actually search for???

 

Not quite. Toning is not always problem, and in a lot of cases actually increases the value and eye appeal. However when toning goes too far and starts turning black, aka 'terminal', then it becomes a problem. It has gotten to the point that it has damaged the actual surface.

Here is an example we just discussed in this thread:
http://www.cointalk.com/t191959/

 

There is a long list of what are considered problem coins.
Filed rims-- done to hide rim dings and also to remove the metal making them under weight.
Peeling Lamination--the metal just peels away flaw in the manufacture of the coin.
Hole or plugged coin-- yes some coins have holes in them and yes sometimes people try to fix those holes. Holed coins also have collectors as a branch of the hobby.
Counterfeits-- these are thought of as contemporary done at the time of minting or shortly after and modern day as in being done now mostly in China.
Cleaning-- from dipping that is normally considered market acceptable to the kid with a pencil eraser making that penny bright it runs the gauntlet from OK the Yuk.
Questionable color-- This normally brings up the debate of artificial toning vs. natural toning all I will say is please don't pay a lot of money for colorful coins as in many cases your never going to get it back.
Scratched--not accepted as they are normally associated with graffiti on the coin that is considered damage.
Edit to add the Environmental damage as shown in the image above-- normally the result of storage problems.

 

Thanks for all of the information guys! Like I said, there is a lot to learn!

 

A "problem" is literally anything which may make the coin "undesireable" in the eye's of a collector OR which may limit the coins true value.

All of the common problems have been addressed above but "problems" are really relative to the coin and its relative value.Ffor example, a cleaned 1960-D Lincoln cent might be worth 1c whereas a 1955 Doubled Die Obv (1955/55) that has the exact same cleaning, would be worth hundreds!

Typically, coin "problems" are not obvious to most new collectors as most require some indepth experience to recognize and evaluate.

 

Well said.

 

All of these posts make a presumption that simply may not be valid....they presume you care about the coin's future "value".

You and you alone get to decide if you care about your ability to resell the coin at a later date. Perhaps a particular type will become especially meaningful to you. Or perhaps you decide you like a particular sort of specific problem just for the heck of it. There is, in fact, a collector on this very forum putting together a Dansco 7070 Type set of all holed coins.

Are holed coins "problem coins"? Absolutely. Will this reduce their "value"? To most collectors, yes. But ya gotta admit...every one of those holes probably has a story, and there isn't likely to be another 7070 like that one!

Or maybe you ARE concerned with "value", but not with "profit". Perhaps you're even willing to lose a little...so long as it's only a little...on any given coin, and consider the loss your "cost" of getting a particular coin sooner, and then upgrading later...or, for that matter, simply deciding the coin no longer interests you.

Bottom line...these things are "problem" coins because they have some sort of damage that a majority of collectors have a "problem" with.

That doesn't, however, make them unsuitable for ALL collectors...merely the majority.

 

A Matter Of Opinion!!

The long and short answer for what constitutes a "problem coin" is simply stated: "an opinion".

There are many "problem coins" in TPG holders, and I've spent appreciable time finding the "diamonds in the rough" that one TPG has "opinioned" as having a problem, while another will certify at a relatively high grade.

There seemingly are few "standards" for certification/grade agreement between TPG, and "conservation" (e.g. cleaning, etc.) is performed/accepted by the various TPG or "affiliates". Often a coin certified to have a problem by a particular TPG who has more stringent standards is quite acceptable for grading by another. The "top tier" TPG can generally be trusted to provide a certification of authentic, so any coin purchased in their cases can generally be accepted as not being counterfeit. Other grading parameters may be questionable at any given time, will often vary significantly between TPG, and can easily result in a "cull" becoming a Gem.

You will probably hear the stellar advice "buy the coin, not the label". Heed this warning, and you will likely be rewarded. Becoming educated about any coin of interest is probably a better defense than reading labels. :thumb:

 

To add to what Doug has said, it is sometimes very rare to find a 200+ year old coin that hasn't been "messed with" in one way or another. In the 1800's, collectors didn't view such things as cleaning or lacquering to be anything wrong.

Chris