Pretty Patina

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Today in the post I received a coin I was attracted to not because of the rarity (it is indeed rare!), but more so because of the beautiful patina.



    V1578.jpg Domitian as Caesar
    Æ As, 4.57g
    Rome mint, 74 AD (Vespasian)
    Obv: CAESAR DOMIT COS II; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: S C in laurel wreath
    RIC 1578 (R2). BMC -. BNC -. RPC 2003 (0 Spec.).
    Acquired from Forvm Ancient Coins, January 2020.

    An extremely rare orichalcum As struck for Domitian Caesar under Vespasian in 74 AD. Traditionally the issue has been attributed to various Eastern mints, however, recent scholarship has shown that it was produced in Rome. Style, die axis, metal, and circulation pattern all point to a Western coinage, despite the 'Eastern' flavour of the reverse designs. T. Buttrey in the RIC II.1 Addenda wrote: 'There is nothing like this series in the whole of Roman imperial coinage. It is a deliberate act of Orientalism, imposing the flavour of the East on a Western coinage'. This particular As featuring a right facing portrait is rarer than the much more common left facing portrait. Missing from both the BM and Paris collections.

    This coin is part of the same issue that my recent Titus Caesar semis is from. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/antioch-in-rome.354207/

    Although the piece has an interesting numismatic story to tell, it was the aesthetically pleasing patina I was most attracted to.

    Please post your pretty patinas!
     
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  3. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Glad you snapped it up David. Beautiful coin.
     
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  4. Spargrodan

    Spargrodan Well-Known Member

    Very nice! Interesting history to it too.
     
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  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    It is a nice coin with an interesting story.
     
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  6. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Very nice sibling to your Titus, David!

    Here's what a "real" Eastern-curculated coin "of the orient" looks like... Plus I love it's dark, dark green and details that show through.
    [​IMG]
    Domitian, 81-96 AD, Antioch, Syria, AE26
    Obverse: IMP DOMITIA-NVS CAES AVG, laureate head right.
    Reverse: Large SC within laurel wreath of eight leaves, fastened with pellet at top . References: RPC 2021
    Size: 26mm, 12.7g


    As patinas go, I love this Trajan...
    [​IMG]
    Trajan, Ruled 98-117 AD
    AE25, Struck 116/117 AD
    Syria, Seleucis and Pieria, Laodicea ad Mare
    Obverse: ΑΥΤΟΚΡ ΝΕΡ ΤΡΑΙΑΝΟС ΑΡΙСΤ ΚΑΙС СΕΒ ΓΕΡ ΔΑΚ ΠΑΡ, laureate head of Trajan right with drapery on left shoulder.
    Reverse: ΙΟΥΛΙΕωΝ ΤωΝ ΚΑΙ ΛΑΟΔΙΚΕωΝ ΓΞΡ, turreted and veiled bust of Tyche right, date M/KO (Caesarean year 163) before.
    References: RPC III 3797-8
    Size: 25mm, 9.8g


    And these Trajans (whose tale of being minted in Rome but circulated in the East may actually be legitimate?)...
    [​IMG]
    Trajan, Ruled 98-117 AD
    Orichalcum As, Struck 115-116 AD
    Speculated to be struck in Rome for circulation in Syria/Antioch.
    Obverse: IMP CAES NER TRAIANO OPTIMO AVG GERM, radiate bust of Trajan right, with slight drapery.
    Reverse: DAC PARTHICO P M TR POT XX COS VI P P, S C within laurel wreath.
    References: RIC 647, McAlee 509
    Size: 23mm, 7.05g


    [​IMG]
    Trajan, Ruled 98-117 AD
    Orichalcum As, Struck 115-116 AD
    Speculated to be struck in Rome for circulation in Syria/Antioch.
    Obverse: IMP CAES NER TRAIANO OPTIMO AVG GERM, radiate bust of Trajan right, with slight drapery.
    Reverse: DAC PARTHICO P M TR POT XX COS VI P P, S C within laurel wreath.
    References: RIC 647, McAlee 509
    Size: 23mm, 7.97g
     
  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    My A-P of Tyche has a nice chocolate patina with brass highlights.

    Antoninus Pius (138-161 A.D.)
    Laodicaea ad Mare
    Obverse: Portrait of AP right
    Reverse: Portrait of Tyche left, with city represented on her head, countermark on Pius' left shoulder, AE 27 14.2 grams

    ap1.jpg

    ap2.jpg
     
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  8. Brian Bucklan

    Brian Bucklan Well-Known Member

    Like the OP example I really like coins with a very light color dusting over a dark surface. Here's another one:
    Macedonian Shield Herakles Caduceus.jpg Macedonian Kingdom (Anonymous issue), ca 323-275 BC
    Obv: Head of Herakles facing, wearing lion's skin headdress, forming central boss of Macedonian shield ornamented with five double crescents
    Rev: Crested Macedonian helmet with cheek guards; monogram to left, caduceus to right
     
  9. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Many of my Sicilians have nice patina's me think:

    P11609 3 dots.jpg P1160926b.jpg P1170795new.jpg P1130393.JPG
     
  10. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    Nice Domitian and patina David! Some of my fav patinas.

    tium3.jpg

    odessusGeta.jpg

    normal_thessalyHadrian.jpg
    EmesaPythianElagabalus.jpg
    samosataPius.jpg
     
  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Nice one David.
    Domitian 6.jpg
    DOMITIAN
    AE23
    OBVERSE: AVT KAISAR DOMITAINOS SEB, laureate head right
    REVERSE: KIONON MAKEDONWN, Macedonian shield
    Struck at Koinon of Macedonia, 81-96AD
    8.2g, 23mm
    RPC 336, SNG Cop 1337, Moushmov 5881
     
  12. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    A few of my Flavian "greenies"...

    4GrTg7iMY6q25AgbwoR63XyBX9ad8w.jpg 4774303l.jpg 4948728l.jpg VC0405-019LG.jpg 3200386.jpg 4911050l.jpg An7Ag4EFKH8yC9pD2siWj5Bj6tzNs3.jpg Mz6g7oeXJb5Ey9HFQD8t2nG5T3dR4a.jpg
     
  13. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    An amazing coin David. Congrats.
     
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  14. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    I've had this one for over 12 years. It's not quite so "bright" in hand.

    NeroVictory.jpg
     
  15. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Nice addition David.
    Do you really think these coins were minted in Rome? The flan weight seems a bit low for an imperial As.
     
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  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I really don't have any doubts the mint is Rome. The various reasons why I believe so are stated in the OP. To my mind the bigger mystery is the intended purpose of these coins. Are they commemorative, and if so, commemorating what? T. Buttrey theorised it is a celebration of Vespasian's career and elevation in the East.
     
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  17. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    If it was struck in Rome and intended for use in Italy I would call it a semis at 4,57 gram.
    I think it was minted for use in Syria , not uncommon that coins were minted in Rome for use in the provinces.

    Semis Hadrian 4,9 gram struck in Rome:

    Hadrianus Aequitas semis 1.jpg
    Light As Trajan 6 gram struck in Rome:

    Trajanus Victory.jpg

    just my 2cents.
     
  18. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    For consistency sake, I have attributed it as an As because all the major references (RIC, BMC, and RPC) do so.

    The citations for the coins from this issue are heavily weighted towards the Western empire, very few are in the East. T. Buttrey in the RIC II addenda says this about the circulation pattern 'The citations in RPC II are drawn almost entirely from Western collections, and total: Western - 108, Eastern - 4. The Eastern finds appear to be simply the débris of Mediterranean circulation.' It seems very few made it to Syria!
     
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  19. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    OK, its clearly for western circulation , what is the diameter of your coin ?
     
  20. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    22mm. You do bring up a good point about how these coins appear physically smaller in size and weight than the corresponding regular issues. Strangely enough, they are also made of orichalcum and were clearly intended to circulate with the standard coins the mint was contemporaneously producing. I wonder how that worked out?
     
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  21. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    At 22mm and 4,57 gram its hard to believe a Roman would accept it as an As for payment. My lightest As is 6 gram but it has the diameter of a regular As with 26 mm. I believe your coin is a Semis, but since it made of orichalcum it could be a half Dupondius ? = 1 As.
     
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