Possible SMS or just a Proof like?

Haven't found much on the SMS Quarters of 1964 aside from it being a Type A Reverse and the Polishing Lines running everywhere, especially behind the bust and peruke running every which way. This one definitely has raised lines all over and has a semi to full proof like reflection on both sides.
After posting my last one that was proven to be polished and seeing what was learned through the help on this forum, this one seems to at least be a product of the mint with no tampering.
I have gone through probably every picture that I could find of the SMS Quarters and noticed that the polishing lines tend to vary from coin to coin, so decided to attempt finding characteristics of the die itself and noticed a few similarities with the outer devices. On the word QUARTER, the A connects to the R at the bottom and the E and R connect at the top. The T connects to the E in STATES at the top between the 2 letters. On the Obverse, the only notable mention that I've noticed is a thick file line or beginning of a die crack runs from the top of the R to the T of LIBERTY.
I highly doubt that this is it, but after looking around for PL 1964 Quarters from my previous quarter of question, I came across the SMS too often to not ask opinions. Hopefully it's at least a nice PL example this time.

 

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All but the last 2 pics are of the coin in question. Last 2 are of the known SMS from Coinfacts that I used for comparison.

 

Likely not an SMS. Go out and buy a 65 sms set to see what sms looks like vs a nice unc and you will see this is not one. Plus all 64 sms are accounted for.

 

They actually look quite similar. Besides the die polishing lines which was noted while I was reading.
I was unaware that they were all accounted for. Do you have a link to the info on that?

 

The 64 in the last pics actually looks a little like a normal proof and not an SMS.

 

That's the same one from the OP. It's so sharp I thought that just maybe it's something I should ask about

 

Yep so well struck SMS coins of 65, 66, and 67 can look proof like. But the opposite is not true, that is the 64 proof or business strike may look like a well sruck SMS, but that does not make it SMS...

 

Right. I definitely understand that, but it looks like a proof, has die polish lines, and matches up to the die characteristics of the SMS...to an extent. Thinking it's just a nice PL business strike. SMS would be awesome though so I would like to know opinions.

 

You DO NOT have a 1964 SMS. Read the following

https://www.pcgs.com/news/1964-Special-Mint-Set-Coins

I hate You Tube. Yes, 1964 SMS coins exist, but they don't bother to tell you why you won't find one in circulation

 

For one, I don't rely on YouTube for ANY information regarding...anything really. If that were the case I would just melt it into fractions for monetary supply when the illuminati try to end the world lol. Second, I have read that article and that's actually what made me aware of the existence of the supposed SMS coins of 1964. Could just be a marketing scam from stake holders that got their hands on some nice coins from fresh dies for all we know. Third, I assume that perhaps you don't enjoy reading to the end of an article or maybe only read fragments to build your own analysis? Either way, "no possibility" may be true, but your article didn't really state that to be the case...

 

So basically, PCGS says there may be some out there, but let us find them and we'll sell em to you for a hefty premium because we're the only ones that can possibly read the diagnostics of a coin. Kinda suspicious really since there's no record of them or definitive proof of where they came from or how they were made. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most years have first strikes from the dies that look better than most? I get that the Half has the very prominent "teardrop" on the 4 but if they were truly intended to be presentation pieces, why use a defective die to strike them? All that is ever noted on the quarter is the lines around the peruke and the fact that it's struck so well that it can be confused with a proof. That's why I had asked. This one wasn't found in pocket change by the way. It was purchased from a collector solely based on the overall appearance standing out from the other 50 silver quarters that I could have bought.

 

Unless you can show that your coin has provenance to Eva Adams or Lester Merkin, it is going to be extremely difficult to prove that you have an SMS coin. Remember, you are claiming to have a very rare coin and it is believed that all of the known coins have come to market through the Adams/Merkin connection. Finding anything else is going to require extraordinary proof. Just looking like an existing coins isn't enough. For items like this, you need exact die matches

You need at least one of the following to have a shot at an SMS 1) Top tier TPG authentication (obviously), 2) Adams/Merkin Provenance, 3) A top level numismatic researcher such as Burdette or Bowers believing it's one. 4) An exact die match to an authenticated SMS quarter. Short of that, I think you're stuck.

It is probably going to take a lot of research to find something to back up your claim. You could try the Newman Numismatic Portal
https://nnp.wustl.edu/


I'm sure you have come across these, but I am including some additional info on 1964 SMS coins for anyone else who is interested. They are for the half but have background info

https://coins.ha.com/itm/sms-kennedy-half-dollars/1964-50c-sms-ms67-pcgs/a/1239-5545.s
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1964-50c-sms/6844 (scroll to the bottom)

 

Anytime I see the words "SMS" and "1964" your answer should be "No".

As you gain more experience and remove your bias from your analysis, you'll come to the same conclusion. Until then, nothing anyone says will sway your bias.

 

I was unaware of the numismatic portal so thank you for that I'm definitely looking forward to checking that out this evening. I agree that it's obviously next to impossible and certainly improbable just to be clear. Not necessarily because it's not but because of the market on the SMS. They wouldn't sell for near as much if it were a coin that could just be cherry picked in the wild.

 

As I stated before, I have no problem admitting that this is just a nice PL Quarter and nothing else. I do however enjoy the thrill of the hunt, and would rather disprove my theory entirely and learn along the way than to just say no. If I didn't ask or want to find evidence for or against my claim, I would just collect baseball cards. I understand that it's a one in a million shot, but it does still show some common ground with the description of an SMS. They're obviously as intriguing as die trials, test strikes, and pattern coins and it keeps me interested just like most collectors as the values show for any such coin. I had to ask opinions and itsia bummer to read negative comments telling me the answer should ALWAYS be no.

 

SMS is a method of manufacture as is Proof. There were an extremely low number of 64 SMS coins struck with the SMS process. This new process was officially used in '65 , '66, and '67 and then discontinued and the Proof process starting again in '68...the problem is there are no die markers that are definitive to SMS.

 

Right in my understanding this far, they were basically over polished dies. I know I recall reading that the 65-67 SMS were struck in SF even though they didn't carry a S mint mark. According to my memory, old screw presses were sent there to continue striking 1964 coins into 1966-1967 under the Pittman Act. So maybe the 64 SMS were first strikes from the new...or old I guess dies sent to SF?

 

Here are a couple of places you can start. These photos are from 2 certified 1964 SMS quarters.
See if you have any matching die lines. There are other lines that you can match besides the two or three with red arrows in each photo. But it gives you a jumping off point.

Click on the photo to make larger.

 

Yep, doesn't seem to have those. So is it always the dies that make the polish lines? Reason I ask is because I've noticed the nicest ones on Coinfacts seem to have the lines going horizontal, yet the other example from the OP runs more noticeably vertical like mine. If it were just the polish lines direction, hands down I'd have never thought that mine could possibly be. However, they do show other examples not fitting that specific orientation of lines. I know everyone hates YouTube, but they do have the video taken from HA showing the rotation in the light and mine definitely has the same reflective semi cartwheel look between proof and business strike. Its very confusing because of the descriptions being special presentation, then a run of strikes used to prepare for the 1965 SMS. Oh well though I'll just set it aside to send out one of these days and hope for a decent grade. I am intrigued however to keep trying to find more info and hopefully one day at least get to see one in person. They must be super duper special for the kind of money they bring lol