Hey Folks, You might want to take another extra long look at your 1942-P Mercury Dimes! I attended a local Ioin Show in Knoxville, Tennessee on Saturday and one of the Coin Dealers that I know had a 1942/1-P Mercury Dime that is apparently a new variety. This overdate DDO looked identical to the 1942/1-D Mercury Dime Varieties and Dave (the COin Dealer) also had a 1942/1-D specimen for sale and it was used for comparison. Although none of these possible new Varieties have ever been found or submitted for authentication, certification and grading before, it is a very high possiblility that the coin is authentic and others exist. Since the Philadelphia Mint produces all of the Dies for the three Mints and it is highly likely that at least one or more Working Hubs (Dies) that had the overdate DDO which are found on the 1942/1-D Varities was retained by the Philadelphia Mint for minting the 1942-P Mercury Dimes. If one of these Working Hubs was also shipped to the San Francisco Mint, then there were also similar Varieties struck at the San Francisco Mint. Several very knowledgeable Coin Dealers that have bought and sold many of the 1942/1-P and 1942/1-D Mercury Dimes over the years, all believed that the coin was authentic. I only wish that I had the $1050 at the time to purchase both coins from Dave. The 1942/1-P was a strong VF-30 which came very close to being an EF-40 while the 1942/1-D was a solid VF-30. Just like Cops, where are the Bucks when you need them! Frank
Frank: Too bad that you wern't able to get a photo. I'd love to see that one. Are you saying that they had a 1942/1 that resembled the 1942/1 D? Wow! if ligit, then I have to go back & re-complete my series! The Other Frank
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I'm almost positive it's couterfeit. What you are talking about has been seen a few times before. The "1" for the overdate probably can be seen over the "2" in the date instead of behind the "2". That's the most obvious clue of an added numeral. If you had pics, that would really help. I'll email Bob Campbell and ask what he thinks. He has taught the ANA Couterfeit Detection Class in Colorado Spring for atleast the past 5 years, so he's very reputable.
Frank, Yes, the 1942/1-P that Dave has is like the 1942/1-D "Overdate" Mercury Dime! Dave is sending it in for authentication, certification and grading and if legit "WOW", can you imagine the prices that these specimens will fetch!? Frank
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I can't help wondering if someone with Billzach's skill has simply removed the"D" mint mark . . .
YNcoinpro_US, The "1" being over the "2" is the first thing I and the others looked for! Well, I can say with certainty that the "1" was behind the "2" on the specimen that Dave had! Not only was the "1" behind the "2", the "4" was also doubled just like the "4" on the 1942/1-D specimens. The coin was a circulated VF-30 to almost EF-40 specimen and the coin appeared to be a very "Late Die Stage" as the date was a little weak. Being always the sceptic, I had the money in the Bank but did not want to fork out that kind of money as the thoughts of it being a counterfeit kept creeping around in the back of my mind. However, I could kick myself now as I am sure that Dave whom I have known for quite a long while, would take the coin back and refund my money if in fact it was a counterfeit. I still have a day or two before Dave sends it off for authentication, certification and grading, so if I can rearrange some of my biills, I may contact him and purchase the coin (if he still has it that is as there were a lot of people interested in the coin). Heck, even without purchasing the 1942/1-P coin, I still could have purchased the 1942/1-D coin for around $500 which is cheap for a solid VF-30 specimen. Just to give you a little background information on both coins, I will tell you what Dave told me. Both of the coins actually belong to Dave's Father-In-Law who resided, worked and Gold Prospected in Alaska for over 40 years. Dale (I think that that is his name because Dale's was wrote on the 2x2's that the coins were in) decided to retire and just recently moved to Tennessee to be near family. Since there are no Banks close to where his Father-In-Law lived in Alaska, Dale buried all of his' coin colections and savings on the property. Dave stated that the two overdate Mercury dimes and quite a few other coins in the bunch were buried by Dale in one hole close to 40 years ago. From what Dave indicated, Dale buried other coin collections all over the place and at different times during the more than 40 years he was in Alaska. Now Dave usually has a fairly large and nice assortment of coins on display at the Coin Shows each month but this time, he had nearly twice the amount of coins that he normally does. This time, he had a lot of really older Large and Half Cents, Two Cent and Three Cent Pieces, Half Dimes, Dimes, Quarters, Halves, some Silver Dollars and other coins which he normally doesn't have or at least I have never seen him have that amount of coins and especially the older ones. Dave also had a lot of older Currency at this Coin Show and the amount on display was about 5 or more times the amount that he normally has on display. So as you can see, the story and the amount of coins and currency fit the story Dave told me besides I have known Dave for quite a long time and he can be trusted. Therefore, I believe that the coin is authentic but no matter, Dave is sending it in and I should know the awswer to the question at next month's Coin Show which will be held on the second Saturday of January 2007 at the Budget Inn of North Cedar Bluff Road in Knoxville, Tennessee. You can bet that I will give you all an updated as soon as I found out the outcome from Dave! Frank
If that's what happened, and If it succeeds, someone will hve converted a valuable coin into a much more valuable one. Doesn't anyone else find it the least bit suspicious that dies used at two different mints would have the exact same doubling?
satootoko: "Doesn't anyone else find it the least bit suspicious that dies used at two different mints would have the exact same doubling?" Actually, yes. In addition, we find it amazing that this could have gone undiscovered for 64 Years. When all is said and done, I am betting on strike doubling.
satootoko, Not at all, when you consider that all of the Dies were and still are produced at the Philadelphia Mint and that the Master Dies that created the 1942/1-D Type Overdates would have been used to produce many Working Hub Dies! In other words, one Master Die with the incorrect (1941) Date was used to produce one or more Working Hubs, this or these Working Hub(s) were then removed and annealed and then replaced for a second pressing using a Master Die with the correct (1942) Date (this is double hubbing or called Design Hub Doubling). It is a very highly likely scenario, that one or more double hubbed Working Hub Dies were used to make Working Dies. Although the proof that one or more of these Working Dies with the overdate were shipped to the Denver Mint is well known, it is quite possible that one or more of these Working Dies were kept at the Philadelphia Mint for their use. Also, it is quite possible that one or more of these Working Dies with the overdate, may have been shipped to the San Francisco Mint. This was the case with at least two of the 1914/3-P, 1914/3-D and 1914/3-S Buffalo Nickels that were shipped to these Mints as two of them (can't remember which two) have the exact same overdate. The link below is to the Coin Facts site with infomation about the 1914/3 Buffalo Nickels. http://www.coinfacts.com/Nickels/buffalo_nickels/1914d_buffalo_nickel.htm Frank
Actually, No...there are master hubs that produce numerous master dies that then produce several working dies that are then used to strike coins. Dies would reach the branch mint and then have the mintmark punched into them. Dies from all three mints can have the same doubling that will end up on coins struck from those dies. 1972 Lincoln cents are an example of this as there are 1972, 1972 D and 1972 S cents all with the same doubling. The second point...Even with all the scrutiny of 1972 Lincoln cents, I found a new variety back in 1999 on a 1972 S Lincoln cent that is very evident but had never been found before. It's a nice DDO. I've also found several new die varieties on 1983, 1986 and 1989 cents 15 years after they were issued. New varieties on "old" coins are turning up all the time have Fun, Bill
I find it hard to believe that the dealer would think the coin is authentic, and would be willing to part with it for under 1k. (Frank, I'm not skeptical of you, but rather the dealer, I hope for his sake it is real, as that would be ultra exciting) If it is a new variety, and is that dramatic, it would be easily worth tens of thousands I would suspect.
I understand the skepticism that everyone would have concerning the authenticity of the coin! I am not skeptical of the Coin Dealer and neither would any of you, if you actually knew Dave! Dave is an extremely honest and honorable person and Coin Dealer. Also, Dave was selling the coin for his Father-In-Law and made no claims that the coin was authentic. He named the Coin Dealers that had looked at the coin and that he and they believe that the coin is authentic. The other named Coin Dealers that looked at the coin, have many, many years of experience and a wealth of knowledge about coins and counterfeits. To expand on the great pont that Bill (foundinrolls) made in answering Treashunt's post and query "In addition, we find it amazing that this could have gone undiscovered for 64 Years", I will offer this additional information! The first 1914/3-D Buffalo Nickel Variety was not found or at least not submitted for authenticity until the year 2000 which is 86 years after the coin was minted. If it were not for the Coin Collecting craze created by the State Quarters, the 1914/3-D Buffalo Nickel and many other Varieties and Errors may have went another decade or two before being discovered! Frank
Frank: I understand your comments, and I/we are not questioning the veracity of the coin dealer,I am sure that he is honest. However, there are two point that you made that I would like to address: 1)New discoveries all the time, agreed, I recently found a 1909 S, inverted mintmark on a Barber half dollar, that was not noticed for 97 years, and I am sure that there are many other discoveries waiting to be found. However, the original 1942/1 has been known since (about) 1943. In all that time collectors have been scrutinizing their 1942 P dimes. It would be amazing, especially considering the known type of overdate on the 1942/1 D that no one would have seen this. I am not saying impossible, just unlikely. 2) The 1914/3 Buffalo: agreed that it was a new and exciting discovery. However, realize that the overdate was on a new date, which had never been thoroughly searched before. As I remember it, the overdate was discovered as part of a 'challenge'. and collectors re-examined their coins. Also, the overdate on the 1914/3 (P,D,and S) is very subtle. I truly hope that this is a new discovery, the hobby can always use the positive publicity. Good luck to you and your friend. The Other Frank
