I have a PCGS MS65 FS 1943 Jefferson 5c piece. I noticed that there is some sort of crack on the top of the portrait. Can someone help me identify what this is? I've heard of die cracks, die grease, etc. But have no idea how to tell what this is and how it was caused. Thanks in advance :eating: -LTB
May be a lamination crack, that's what it looks like to me. Did you have the nickel graded yourself or did you buy it that way? It always bugs me when something is graded and then you find something like that. I guess it goes to show that they only look at certain areas of the coin.
It's a die crack. Notice how it's irregular and raised? Nickel is a very hard metal, and tends to crack the dies pretty rapidly. When the crack forms, some of the metal from the planchet is forced upwards into the crack. That's why it is raised above the rest of the coin's surface. Die cracks are very common on nickels, and they can be very dramatic sometimes.
Yeah I purchased it that way. I actaully kinda like these sort of oddities...they add character to coin. Otherwise it's just another ordinary war nickel So does PCGS typically give die cracks a label designation? -LTB
Awesome! This is cool as it's my first die cracked, slabbed coin. Also thanks for the explanation as to how/why it happened. :thumb: -LTB
You're welcome. No, PCGS does not designate die cracks on the label. Nor does any other TPG that I've seen.
Many agree. It's kind of cool, and very instructive. Die cracks teach us about coins, how they're made, and certain trivia about mint operations.
No, but specialists are very interested in such things. Basically, specialists round up every specimen of a given issue they can find and try to find every "die state" they can. For instance, get all the 1943-P 5c you can find and examine 'em. What you'll find is some coins have the die crack and some don't. Some have a small die crack, while on others it's larger. It's obvious which coins were made first - the ones with no die cracks. Clearly, the coins with worst die cracks were made last. At that point, they assign various "die states" to the coins - die state I is earliest "perfect" dies, die state II is the first obvious imperfections, etc. Finally, we have "terminal die state" - when the die is on the verge of total failure. It's really cool to lay out all the coins in order and watch the die state progression - the deterioration of the die. For these reasons, some people collect die states. They don't collect just by date or variety, they collect all die states of a given variety. Very educational. Modern coins have far fewer "die states" than older ones. Modern coins almost never show outright "terminal die state". What does that tell us about the early days of the US Mint ?
Here's some other things very useful about die cracks : Die cracks tend to indicate a coin is genuine. It's difficult to counterfeit a coin's details, but much more difficult to get an exact counterfeit match of a die break. On a struck counterfeit (made from dies made from a genuine "host coin"), then the die cracks tend to be very soft and "muddy", not sharp and distinct "lightning bolts" as on a real coin. Die cracks are very useful when attributing a coin. Since no two die cracks are the same, a die crack uniquely identifies a particular die. Sometimes, a coin is so worn or corroded the die break tells us what date it is even if the date is completely gone.
Are they considered mint errors or mint varieties? Do they increase/decrease the coin's value? I have several raw circulated VF-EF Buffalo Nickels that have this.
Die cracks are not considered in grading at NGC and PCGS, but many numismatists think that die cracks actually add character. I certainly do. As pointed out above, they can also aid in attribution and authentication. Some of the most famous die cracks in U.S. coinage would have to include the 1807 "Bearded Goddess" Bust half, Overton-111b, where the crack extends below Liberty's chin and looks like a beard. Others? The 1804 large cent comes to mind, with three distinct die states (Sheldon-266a, b, c), in the latest of which (S-266c) the die cracks above RTY/MERIC (obv/rev) become "retained cuds."
But there is zero nickel in this 'nickel'.... As this is a War 'nickel' composed of other metals. Being 35% silver, these coins are actually rather soft. Take an instrument and attempt to scratch one and then do the same to your best 50-d. You'll agree that the latter resisted better, although it too will be ruined. Nice die crack though.
Whoa! There is a whole science surrounding die cracks; this makes owning one that much more interesting! I take my hat off the the collector that gathers coins with the deterioration progression of the dies; that is one patient individual. Not to mention a real eye for detail; even moreso than the rest of us, as coin collectors are analytical and detail oriented by nature. The stars would really have to align to come across an opportunity to obtain every coin within the progression. But the complete collection would be fascinating beyond words to see in a completed state. Thanks again for all of the info CTers! -LTB
It depends. Strictly speaking, they are neither. They indicate a die state. However, in some cases they are considered a variety. As mentioned above, some die breaks are so dramatic they become a Red Book "variety". The 1804 1/2c "Spiked Chin" comes to mind. It depends. In general, they have little or no effect on a coin's value. Keep in mind that anything people collect can bear a premium if demand exceeds supply. Since many early American collectors have made a science of die states, those die states are collectible. They are even cataloged. For instance, the Die States of early date Large Cents are listed in Breen's "Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of Early United States Cents 1793-1814". Check out major auction catalogs of early date Large Cents and you'll find the description includes not just date and variety, but also die state ! Some die states are rare and in some cases command a premium. For instance, check out this 1804 large cent : http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=460&Lot_No=2270 Note the big cud over "RTY" on the obverse. Also note the auctioneer's description of "Die State III" and the commentary "The middle die state is the scarcest of the three major, collectible die states of 1804 large cents." We did a recent thread on 1804 large cents on this forum; check it out and see how it fits into this thread.
Terminal Die state simply means the latest die state known for a particular variety. It does no have to mean the die is about to undergo total failure. (And there are some varieties where the die has already undergone "total failure" and they continued using it and there are even later die states. The 1804 spiked chin is neither a die crack, not a die break. It is the result of the obv die becoming damaged by a strike through. (Small steel bolt) And the damaged obv was paired with I think four different reverse dies creating several die varieties each of which has it's own series of die states.
