Please help? 1801 Draped Bust Dollar - Edge Lettering Confusion

I was looking at an 1801 Draped Bust Dollar at a market today and it had some odd (well, I thought so, anyway...) for the edge lettering:

Double letters for the word "cents" such as "nn tt ss" and the word "DOLLAR" was spelled "UOLLAR" or some such.

Does anything like this seem reasonable to anyone? Thoughts?

It really seemed screwy to me but the guy mentioned something about the Bolender series? All news to me. Thanks for any help!

 

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Pics would help but be careful buying Bust Dollars, there are some exceptional counterfeits coming out of China and if you don't know what to look for, you can easily be fooled. There was one yesterday that I wanted to bid on but one of the stars was off a little (#13) and made me worry it was a counterfeit so I didn't bid:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270429422989

I want to pick up one now-and-then but if I'm going to spend that kind of money for them, I have to know without a doubt they are authentic or I will run. :vanish:

Ribbit

Ps: Welcome to CoinTalk! :hail:

 

Thanks for getting back to me. The coin looks good but have you ever heard of the edge lettering in them being like this?

 

I would be very wary of early dollars raw, unless from a well established seller with impeccable references. fakes abound.

 

Well on bust halves I have see the tops of letters become, broken - I do not know about bust dollars. I would get a book on bust dollars and take it with me to look at that coin. Then again, as mentioned - I would probably stay away from him.

 

Thanks everyone. I am curious, though, is there something to this Bolender stuff? He mentioned this being one of the varieties and that it explained the wierd lettering around the edge.

 

Yep - Bolender is one of the names given to the varieties of the Bust Dollars. Before even thinking of buying a bust dollar I recommend getting a book on them. I have the Jules Reiver book - some say not the best, but it suits my purposes. Then read the book to learn how to attribute them and what to look for. I would be very leary of buying one raw from somebody other than some dealers I know. These could be an expensive lesson when buying a counterfeit.

 

Bolender wrote The Book on early Dollars (1794 - 1804). Anytime you see a dollar attributed as B-xxx (i.e. 1797 B-3) that is a Bolender number. The Bolender book is expensive and hard to find.

Yes yes yes... get the book. The Reiver book is easy enough to find, and not too spendy. Here is an interesting quote :

"Edge lettering is rarely examined closely, even by specialists. Although the edge lettering is impossible to see in certification service "holders", it is frequently found with unusual characteristics. Examples include double (and even triple) punched edges, and "over runs" (with extra lettering). Examples with reverse lettering (with one or both halves of the inscription pointed the wrong way) exist, probably created when coins were ejected, then returned "backwards" into the machine." (emphasis mine)*
​

They are referring to a Castaing machine, which consisted of two vertical steel bars with the edge inscription on them. The planchet was pulled through the space between them, thus putting the lettering on the edge.





* from "The United States Early Silver Dollars 1794 - 1803", Jules Reiver, Krause Publications

 

I am by no means an expert on these but to the best of my knowledge, the edge variations on these do not determine the variety. On early coppers, that can be the case but on silver, I've never heard of it. :hammer:

Ribbit

 

I'm with ya; I've never heard of it either.

The key is the difference 'twixt a die variety and an error. Two coins appear different; is it because they were made from different dies (a die variety) or same dies but something funky happened during minting (error) ?

Reiver's quote above seems to refer to errors, not varieties. Maybe there are varieties, I dunno. Though he discusses several approaches to early dollar variety collecting, he never mentions edge lettering varieties.

 

Now I'm quite intrigued. I went back to the market today and the guy has raised his price from $200 (which really had me leery in the first place) to $800. What?! I asked him. "Oh, people wouldn't buy it for $200. Sid it was too cheap." Then he asked me if I'd give him 4. Well, needless to say I walked. Why in the world wouldn't the guy pay $25 to get it graded? If real, the coin would be worth over $1,000. Obviously, he had his doubts too... Bullet dodged.

Thanks again for the help, everyone.

 

Here is an interesting site on fake bust $ with photos.

http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/page_7.html

Jim

 

You need to go back with a decent digital camera and post pics. While the odds are it's fake there is a chance it's authentic but we can't help much without pics.

Ribbit