pci to pcgs butcher

PCGS downgraded pf69 deep cameo from pci to pf64 no cameo. They downgraded a multitude of coins. There is no way PCI is that far off from pcgs, especially in the old pci slabs.

Anyone else experience this? Is it possible pcgs would change coins? They were all the same denomination and not one came back out of several hundred with a decent or similar grade.

 

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...what's PCI? I've never heard of that TPG...

 

http://www.coinlink.com/News/coin-grading-authentication/pci-to-be-sold-at-auction-january-16th/

back in the day these graded coins brought huge prices on ebay. It appears pcgs slaughtered a collection of a few hundred coins. There is no way the grading is that far off.

 

Do you have photos of the coins and were they in 10-digit PCI or 14-digit PCI slabs? At times, PCI could be quite good, but even in the pre-gold slab era they were inconsistent. I have a barber quarter that lives in an old 10-digit green label PR64 PCI slab. Neither ICG nor NGC would cross the coin even at PR60, yet I have 14-digit slabs that are accurately graded.

I'm far from a cheerleader for PCGS, but I can't imagine them changing out coins -- all it would take is one documented case to ruin their business.

 

Welcome to CoinTalk, Play2win!!! Cubenewb, they are now defunct. David Lawrence Rare Coins bought their equipment in 2008 and formed Dominion Grading Service (DGS) which folded earlier this year. From all I've heard and known PCI is considered generally to be a second-tier grading company. Also, their coins for the most part were overgraded. A few cross over to PCGS dead even, but most are downgraded. No offense meant to anyone, that's just what I know about them, but I've been known to be wrong. :yes:

 

If it was gold PCI holders I could see it. The last green holder I sent in was a Morgan, went from 62 to 64 PCGS, then just stickered.

What coins were sent in? I can see PCGS being harsh on moderns going in from PCI.

 

Well, I don't know one way or the other.

When you grade the coins yourself, what grade do you assign ?

 

PCGS would not change coins. It's very possible PCGS would not agree with the PCI grades depending on when PCI graded it and the type of holder it is in. PCI has a history of being good and bad.

 

Most were in the gold holders. I do have several in the green holders. PCGS took them in bulk, informed me they would crack them open and then have them graded and returned. We are talking a couple of hundred here. Do you think they downgraded them just because they were in pci holders. The coin is the coin and speaking with experts, they have told me they knew someone that resubmitted the same coin to pcgs 8 times and finally received a bump up. As we all know one grade can be the difference between a several hundred dollar coin and a several thousand dollar coin. From a collectors point of view here, do people give NGC the same value as PCGS?

 

Gold PCI coins should be treated as raw.

 

I do doubt that the same person cracking them out for PCGS is the same person grading. If you watch the PCGS video on how they grade coins, the coins arrive at the grader with only the internal ID number on them. I believe that for the average citizen, the grader has no idea of the owner or the slab it may have previously occupied. Can PCGS make an error, of course, So call or email them your concern, They have always been very responsive and open minded to my inquiries.

 

That happens every day. The important thing to understand is the coin must be high-end for the grade to have a chance of slabbing at the next higher grade. I know guys that make a great living by cracking coins out and resubmitting them over and over until they get the grade they want. They make their money by selling the coins to buyers who base the value on the grade assigned by the TPG rather than on the coin.

 

In my opinion the gold label will not cross or grade at PCGS, 90% of the time. Not a good time in PCI history.

 

How many old green 10 digit holders were in the group?

 

I will admit I have bought a few PCI slabs that got close to what the actual grade is but for modern stuff PCI is no good, In fact there no good for any coin. just stay clear. Take it as a lesson learned.

 

One thing I've noticed with PCI is they are too lax on cameo & deep cameo grading. I own alot of old PCI coins and to me I can see PCGS & NGC not giving the coins the same cameo designations. If I/you were to send in any PCI for crossover I would first crack them out. I just think if PCGS or NGC doesn't see the slab the better chance you have for a higher grade .. but most likely lower than the original.

 

there were only a couple in this lot sent. I am going to examine each coin. But it is hard to distinguish as they were all cracked out so I have no cross serial # reference. When you submit as bulk they remove them and don't supply the cross over information. Basically as someone stated above, they look at it as a raw coin. I have heard that people do make a living resubmitting coins but you would have to be an expert in the field, probably with years of experience. How do people feel about NGC. Maybe I should send some off to them and see if I get better results. Opinions?

 

IMO,

PCGS would not switch coins out.
PCI over graded most of their coins and I would expect almost all of them to drop in grade at least 1 point if not tons more.
I buy them but I buy them off of what I feel the real grade is and not their graded #.

As for NGC I would expect them to grade them pretty much the same as PCGS did.
And as for resubmitting....you might get a 1 point bump one a few but I would not expect much.

The guys that do well on resubmitions are to be great coin graders that can read the price guides. They look for a large bump in price and submit a few times hoping to get that large jump. IE look at a Classic Head $2.5 1837 in MS-62 that coin is worth $7,500 but in MS-63 it's a $20,000 coin...think it might be worth sending in a few times to get an extra $12,500?

play2win...are yours like this? If so send but I am thinking they are not worth resubmitting.

 

The feedback here has been great and I am pleased to find this new resource. As far as grade drops, we are talking drops to as low as pr63, no cameo designation. All were mainly pr68 / 69 deep cameos. The reason I did not crack them out originally is I didn't want to get prints on the coins and inexperience with doing so. A senior person in the industry told me it wouldn't matter because the graders wouldn't be cracking them out but just grading them. Now with the cost of the grade some of the coins are not even worth the cost of the slab. I do see some key sellers online with no slab getting decent prices which is interesting probably because they are full aware if they sent the coin in for grading it would not bring nearly as much, targeting new collectors with limited experience.