My first experience with PCGS for grading and certification will be my last ! First of all, it took 4 (FOUR) full months to get 4 coins processed (gold seal cost - the most expensive I believe). Two of the coins were fairly graded and slabbed. A third came back as counterfeit. All were provincial Chinese silver which have been on fire the past few years and there have been a ton of fakes made. However this third one I am 99% sure is genuine : the weight was perfect for a silver dollar of this province, the edge looks very legit, and it is definitely silver. Plus, I purchased it on Ebay a few years ago from a Los Angeles coin dealer that had over 20,000 transactions with over 99% positive feedback. Lastly, it came from him with a round holed tray tag with very faded ink indicating it was purchased in 1986 at a San Antonio coin show (long before counterfeits were made). I even enclosed this tag in the holder for PCGS to see. They did not even bother to return the tag ! The fourth coin also deemed counterfeit I think is also good - a 10 cent silver in AU has natural toning around the outer areas and the weight is .01 grams from minted new weight in the catalogs. The edge reeding looks rounded so not sure about it.
Counterfeit coins have been made since ancient times. As a young collector in 1966 a Chinese guy gave me a handful of old looking Chinese coins with the square holes in them. He told me right off they were fake, but people carried them as good luck tokens. From Coin Update, 10/26/17: "Mr. L—’s coin presses were at one time in operation at a U.S. mint, and in the early 1900s were sent to the mint in Shanghai, China. In the mid-1950s the presses and ancillary equipment, being obsolete for China’s modern coining needs, were sold off as scrap and ended up in the counterfeiters’ shops of Fujian. In short, Mr. L—’s counterfeit coins are struck on original U.S. Mint coin presses and at the identical strike pressures as the original coins."
Without seeing the coins you submitted, your post is pretty much meaningless. As was mentioned, fakes of Chinese provincials were produced contemporaneous to the actual issues, so there is no 'long before counterfeits were made.' As a dealer, I can say that even we make mistakes (and in our fields of 'specialization' no less) so there is a good chance that you just had some bad luck - just because a TPG didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, doesn't mean that they were necessarily a rip-off. I can say from experience that TPGs do mess up, but again, without seeing what you sent in, I think that any further discussion is a moot point.
Gold Shield is $5 more than the Standard slab. Neither have a thing to do with how fast or slow grading is.
"Definitely silver" does not make that coin real at all as many counterfeits are made with real silver! Provincial Chinese silver is a tough area to be involved in because there are so many fakes and they're really good fakes. Many of the fakes are minted with real silver just to fool more people. Honestly, I think you're wrong but please take it to your next coin show and ask around or take it to a collector who lives and breathes Provincial Chinese silver and you will find out. Lastly fakes have been made way before 1986!
If you aren't happy with PCGS, then by all means, spend your money elsewhere, but to say they deemed two of your submissions as fake, without showing the coins in questions, is more like "sour grapes" than a legitimate complaint about the TPG.
Wow ! Thanks for all the replies - I learned a lot. So here are my "sour grapes" pictures (lol). ** The Anhwei 10C (1898 6char Y-42.4) weighs 2.66g; catalog weight shows 2.65g new. It has toning around outer areas. What I noticed on obverse is slight pitting which may be common to Anhwei silver (salt corrosion since this province is on the coast - I have another Anhwei 10C which has a very pitted surface. I'm not sure about the reeding though(curved instead of flat). **The Chihli dollar 1898(Y-65.1) weighs 26.60g; catalog when new shows 26.70g. Edge looks good to me (usually the hardest thing to counterfeit in my opinion). What I notice is many many tiny nicks in the silver as well as a few edge crunches. Would counterfeiters go to the trouble of using real silver, making it the right weight, badly scratching the dragon, and putting dozens of tiny nicks on the surfaces? Looking forward to more replies -Thanks
Also I just remembered that the Chihli dollar had about 35 bids on Ebay; so if it is fake, it fooled over 20 others too !
These are both wrong, in my opinion... the reeding on both looks wrong, and the devices on both are off. I think that the TPG made the right call on these - I certainly would not put my reputation behind either.
Yes, thats their oldest trick to make it look legitimate, the more issues the coin has the easier it is to hide whats wrong. Both of those coins are HIGHLY faked. I see no reason to doubt the PCGS determination especially on the second one. Old Chinese coins in general are some of the most faked world coins out there, I wouldnt touch any of them unless they were graded without very significant knowledge in the area
Hi - I posted pictures of the 2 Chinese coins in question and more info about them. Please let me know what you think. Thanks
I gotta agree, both look fake, especially the reverses on both. The devices on both look cartoonish, my guess is they got a lot of bids on ebay because they both look like they have wear but I'm certain they're fakes. better luck next time!
So you've sent them for professional opinion and disagree with the accessment. You've put them on ebay and hope to get good money. Id like to think you've put in a line stating that PCGS don't believe that they are genuine
do you think someone is obligated to tell you how many times a coin has been resubmitted to get a grade?
If I send an a coin and it comes by cleaned and i resubmit it To a different grading company say Pcgs then to NGC When it comes back With a straight grade am I obligated to show everybody the Pcgs label that said cleaned?
Really perplexed why people feel they can change the topic to grade or cleaned and apply it to authenticity. Especially when OP didn't send the coins off for a second TPG opinion. From where I sit, ALL opinions on the coins were that they are FAKE and selling them without disclosing is duplicitous.
