PCGS question...

Hey everyone, I purchased quite a few PCGS "PR70 DCAM" State Quarters on Ebay. My question is, against my better judgement, I didn't review the small print with some of these auctions. After the fact, I went in to review the auctions that I had won, and some were notated as having scuffs or marks on them but still listed in the title of the auction as PCGS PR70 DCAM's. Now, I plan on honoring my bids of course, but to make a short story long. Should these coins had been listed as PR70 DCAM's by PCGS if the seller knew they were not? I did not review the details of each auction, and to the buyers credit they did list the defects. Stupid me, I thought buying sight unseen PCGS graded coins would stand on it's on merit??

 

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Sounds like maybe the slabs have scratches or scuffs... If that is the case, it doesn't change the grade of the coins, only the attractiveness of the slabs. They can be re-slabbed if needed, but of course that does add to your cost.

 

They either are or they're not, that is unless we're now going to start sticking it to sellers when we don't agree with a TPG opinion. If they're in genuine PCGS plastic, like it or not, that's what you bought (PCGS' opinion), so please don't start questioning the seller's integrity.

With that said, I'm having a real hard time buying into a bunch of PCGS 70's being all scuffed up, and has already been mentioned, can only assume you're misinterpreting slab issues as being on the coin/coins.

 

Sorry, let me clarify. The coins are graded PCGS PR70 DCAM. The marks, albeit small, are on the coins not the holder. If sent in they would maybe grade PR69 DCAM. Again I was bidding on the PCGS reputation that if that was the grade listed that would be the grade.

 

To the buyers credit the issues with the coins were listed twice in the auction, but not in the title. I am honoring the bids. I just wanted insight on the title. Again going off of PCGS graded mentioned.

 

Once I get them I will post the one's in question

 

Yup, and again I probably should have reviewed each auction one by one, but just assumed they could not possibly be less than the grade mentioned. I guess one possibilty is that over the years the coin could have turned? Seems to be a little early for coins to turn in a reputable slab I would think

 

If there is a mark visible to the naked eye on a coin, it isn't a 70. These are therefore counterfeits, marks on the outside of the slab, or overgraded coins. It's unfortunate that this has to be the method by which you learn the maxim "buy the coin, not the slab." No, you cannot trust the grade on a PCGS slab (or anyone's slab) sight-unseen.

 

These are Clad State Quarters so I doubt they are counterfeits, but lesson learned. Thanks for all of your help everyone! To get them off the market should I send them back to PCGS. I would not list them as 70's

 

If the coin is graded 70 by PCGS but is not actually a 70, you can invoke the grade guarantee. Contact their customer service and they'll (probably) help you, but basically they will pay you the difference between the 70 value and whatever they turn out to be.

 

Thanks, good to know!

 

If the seller offers returns, then return them

 

Rule #1...never to buy any coins graded MS/PR70

 

You're the buyer, Andrew...

It's your call, but it may be interesting to see one of listings. This talk of guarantees and and not blindly trusting anyone's grading is fine and in most cases perfectly reasonable, but numerous scuffed up 70's is a bit of a stretch. I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it, but my gut is telling me that a misunderstanding/misinterpretation is behind this.

 

I see both sides of the uh hmm, coin. It's tricky. In a way I put too much stock in the name on the slab thinking what could go wrong? Well, now I know the answer. I also think that if the seller knows these are not properly graded they should not be listed as such.

 

I thought I copied this response from the seller. Sorry folks. See below

There are many factors that go into the aging, toning, and spotting that can occur in coins. One thing to consider is that what technically constitutes a 69 or 70 is not the same as eye appeal. A coin may be a 69 or 70; however, a person may still not like the appearance of the coin. We do our best to be as clear as possible about the appearance of a coin.


In addition, I believe PCGS is specifically looking for impairments to the surface of the coin in order for it to be anything other than a 70, so a 69 will have some sort of impairment to the surface. This may constitute a “mark” on the coin. Toning and/or spotting do not necessarily qualify as impairments to the surface of the coin. In addition, I might see what I consider a “mark” on a 70 coin that PCGS still graded as a 70. In other words, in their opinion that mark does not impair the surface of the coin or perhaps it was a part of how the die actually struck the coin in the first place. Be that as it may, I want to be absolutely clear with buyers that there is something in that area of the coin that is visible. I want to be as straightforward and honest about what I see so that buyers have the clearest idea possible of what they are bidding on. This is also why we place any concerns in two locations on our auctions—both in the item condition and in the general description for the item.

 

Any chance you could post a link to one of the auctions. I can almost guarantee you that the scratches are on the holders and not on the coin. If they are on the coins, that means the slab had been cracked open at some point, the coins removed, played with, then put back in and glued, at which point some damage will still be evident on the slabs. A "70" graded coin will not have scratches.

 

PCGS does have a grade guarantee that physics-fan3.14 posted above. There is a good chance that they will make it right, but they reserve the right to either give you another coin, or pay you the difference between the 70 price and whatever grade they determine it actually is.
Where they get the prices is solely up to them, and they could always just say that they agree with the 70 and you are out shipping.
The modern and bulk graders at both major grading companies spend only a couple of seconds determining if they think the coin is a 70. They definitely get it wrong sometimes.