PCGS, Grading Cleaned, Buzzed, Tooled & Pluged Coins "Genuine"

Thanks Chris......




Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away (sorry, I got carried away), ANACS, the oldest grading company, decided that whatever coins were submitted to them for grading, as long as they were genuine, they would grade them and slab (holder) them. So, you might see a draped bust dollar listed as "1799 ANACS VG details: cleaned." They would use the term "details" to indicate that the coin was not problem free, and then describe the "problem" such as "scratched, damaged, cleaned, plugged, rim nicks" etc. Normally, the "details" attribution would lower the grade by one level (i.e. "fine" to "very good").

NGC, often through their subsidiary name (NGS) would grade and slab problem coins. PCGS has added the "genuine" option for all their "problem" coins within the last few months. Prior to that, if the coin did not meet their criteria, they were "body bagged" and returned to the owner ungraded and unslabbed.

That has changed. However, PCGS is inconsistent in describing the problem. Often, they only say "genuine" on the front label. Sometimes they state on the reverse of the holder "genuine; not gradable." Sometimes they actually describe the problem on the front label under their "genuine" designation. "Inconsistent" would be the best word to describe their methods now. You are often left to guess what the "problem" may be as in the instant case.

During all the years I have collected, I have always been attracted to coins that looked nice, including "cleaned" coins. I understand that cleaning coins does cause some undue wear on them and can have negative effects especially with copper coins, but I also appreciate clean coins far more than dark, "toned", or damaged coins (bad scratches, holes, solder from a jewelry setting, etc.).

 

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at least they're not outright taking your fee anymore, not that I use them or any other service to grade my coins.

 

The slab tells you why the coin only got a genuine slab. On the label you will find the first set of digits with is the coin number a period and the no grade code. In the case of the coin pictured it is a 98 which represents damaged. As far as the type of damage I don't know coins well enough to know.

For a complete list of the genuine codes you can go to http://www.pcgs.com/faq.chtml#faqid231
you will also see that some will be given a description and some will not. The coin in question with a code of 98 will not be given a description where as a code of 82 - filled rim will have a printed description.

Dave

 

I just got one back too from PCGS. It came back Genuine-Questionable Color. I will post a picture once I receive it. I hate how they won't give it a grade.

 

I like that they are doing this. However, I do agree that they need to state on the slab what the problem is. I would also like to see a different "tag" in the slab for the problem coins. I wouldn't want to see some shady dealer selling "genuine" coins certified by PCGS as if they are something special. If they used a red label and made it very clear that it was a problem coin and why...then I would be very happy with them.

 

I dont know abut a "Red Label", but i would liketo see like

"Genuine"
"Questionable Color"
"MS-64 Details"

That would be perfect, also i am glad there even slabbing these, so you know your no buying a draped bust dollar that is fake.

Also i got 4 IHC in the same pack "Genuine"

One of them even says "Genuine"
Then below it says "Proof" No Detail InfoThough

 

As GD says them saying just Genuine on the coin shows that the coin in itself is a problem coin. Now to elaborate a little more on what I said earier. On the slab you have the following on the obverse. 6878.98/14257428. The 6878 represents the coin number. The 98 represents the no-grade/problem code and of course the 14257428 is the cert number. The basic description for code 98 is damaged but when I looked up the cert number for the coin in question it states damage or tooling.

So I guess in my mind just having the coin say genuine by itself tells me it is a problem coin, and if take the time to research the cert number from pcgs's website, I can find out exactly why they are calling it a problem coin.

Dave

 

Stella, While PCGS doesn't net grade coins, PCGS does give you some information on what's wrong with the coin, but you have to know how to find it... Specifically, you'll notice the number 6878.98 on the slab. The ".98" part means "other damage". Here's a guide as to what these numbers mean:

* 91 Artificially Colored
* 92 Cleaned
* 93 Planchet (Coin Blank) Flaw
* 94 Altered Surface
* 95 Scratched or Rim Dented
* 97 Environmentally Damaged
* 98 Other Damage


Source: http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/f/pcgs_genuine.htm



Hope this helps...Mike

 

Thanks Mike.....

And Dave.....

 

This was kind of what I was thinking as well...but I would like them to go a step further and use a different label. I feel that a red label (or just some other color) would help to further distinguish them from normal PCGS coins.

 

Personally, I'm happy to see PCGS take this step in the right direction. When someone pays for a service, they should get it even if the coin is "Counterfeit-Cleaned-AT-Damaged."

 

I personally would like to see the word "details" eliminated from TPGs. It seems like they were going to say something but didn't have the room or forget what they were going to say. Details are what I want. Tell me what is wrong with the coin: cleaned, altered surface, fake tonig, etc.

 

I agree. I feel that when a coin is slabbed as "XF details" or such...that it kind of assigns a value range to the coin. I feel that damage to a coin destroys the grade related value of a coin and it becomes a very individual thing to determine the value of the coin. So, I prefer what PCGS does and just call it genuine (and add whats wrong with the coin more clearly).

 

Richie,

This topic seems familiar to me. Hmmmm! Oh Yeah, here is my opinion.

http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t43693/

:smile

 

Yeah, I remember that...I had an opinion in there too.

 

I hope the grade other plastic slabs soon.

I hope the grade other plastic slabs soon.

Think for a moment how it would be (I'm seeing into the future now) - they could come up with a triple slab!
First you get your coin graded by ANACS.
Then to have the ANACS grade confirmed send to NGC.
Then NGC could slab the slab verifying that the stated ANACS holder was genuine and the grade, well it's sort of close.
Then to the gods of all graded coins PCGS who would then slab the aforementioned slabs in a heavenly original triple cased plastic slab verifying ANACS and NGC as coming sort of close to the grade but at least the plastic is all genuine.
Oh, I forgot about the Star and CAC stickers blada, blada, blada, blada, yaada, yadda<<<>>>>>
Then finally you could be the proud owner of a coin worth $11 in $550 worth of certifications and plastic and what a proud owner you would be.
And yes I will quit for the day soon as I have been called on my" "tension scale being a 9 but you gotta know I got a personality, right?

 

I'm all for the triple slab if it comes with pickles, onions, & thousand island dressing on it!

 

Plus a partridge and pear tree?

Plus a partridge and pear tree?

 

Let's not get greedy now!