PCGS changes coming

From Hall of PCGS:

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http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=751582


So what do you think? 100 pt. grading system? RFtags for holders? New determination of AT/NT differences? 3D imaging ?? Better method of determination of Cleaning and Altered surfaces??

The big question most seem to have is
Submit now with the standards we know, or
Submit later with some unknown ahead.

 

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Photographic representations of all coins graded would be my guess.

 

Add to that a search-able database that contains those photos for slab authentication purposes. Too bad DGS already has this. However, there has to be something more otherwise he wouldn't be so excited.

No way they will try to change the grading scale, too risky. Likewise, the concept of market acceptability only works when the standards are not clearly defined. Setting AT/NT standards paints the TPG into a corner because they don't really know most of the time. It might be something about problems coins, IDK.

 

A 100 point grading scale is utter madness and will just confuse people. Just say no!

While I do own many PCGS coins I am an NGC guy and unlikely to change.

 

Here's what I wish they would do :

Cheaper attribution, especially if submitter suggests the variety - it's cheaper to verify a suggestion than research it from ground up. ANACS has done that for years. $24/coin is high.

Faster turnaround - my experience (albeit limited) is that NGC is much faster than PCGS. NGC is sometimes as fast as 5 business days (quoted 15); PCGS is often 20 biz-days or worse.

Submission / pickup at more shows

Public access to census and CoinFacts - no fees

Lower fees for submission privileges - make your money off the submissions themselves, not the privilege to submit. Or no fee at all - again, ANACS has done that for years.

 

I like Leadfoot's and 900fine's suggestions. PCGS often gets very excited when they implement something someone else has done before.

 

:d

 

hiho, interesting AVATAR do you know what she represents? At the Whitman show in Baltimore last month I bought a sterling sliver french medal w/ a similar figure on the front.

 

I hope they clarify the submission fees somewhat.

I mean how can you have a grading charge scale based on the value of the coin, when the differences between higher grade coins can be exponential?

 

That's a good point, Aslanmia. What's more ... let's say you do your good-faith estimates on tier and shipping based on MS63... and it comes back MS64, exponentially higher ?

I've talked to 'em about that. They don't penalize you for your good fortune. Unless, of course, you were basing tier and shipping based on unreasonably low grades. I've never known of a problem on that. But you're right; it can get confusing.

 

And how are you supposed to determine value anyway?

Do you use the Red Book for US coins? Krause for foreign coins? Or PCGS's own online guide? It makes my head hurt sometimes... lol.

 

I've been reading about all the 'changes' in the PCGS forum. Some seem to be good, and some just seem to be ways to put in more fees. Unfortunately, even questioning PCGS's motives can get you blasted by purple Kool-Aid by some of the drinkers there. Charging for sections of their online price guide is their chintziest move, IMHO. Also not including it as part of the membership goes in the same bucket too.

 

My question(s) would be, what happens to the coins already graded? Do they all have to be sent back in? Would they charge a fee? Wouldn't all the guide books have to change their values? And grading books change their standards for grades? Or will PCGS be the only one doing this, so all those things stay the same? So does that mean we will have all the other grading companies at a 70 point grading scale, and PCGS only at a 100 point grading scale?


Seems very confusing to me, and too much work would need to be done...

 

I have read a lot of good ideas here but I must say I am suprised no one has more directly mentioned a more secure system for the slabs to prevent counterfits etc. I guess the picture verification somewhat leads to that... but if someone is swaping coins in slabs what good is a picture of the coin on the web going to help? Especially when dealing with MS68+ coins which most people including myself would truely have a hard time telling the difference if someone swapped a coin with only a picture to refer to.
I would like to see a slab that is truely unable to be opened or counterfited.

Changing the grading scale is just silly - no way one grading company would be able to do that without industry wide acceptance.
$.02
J

 

T$, don't worry about it, David Hall of PCGS has publicly reiterated that PCGS will not implement a 100 point scale while he's around at least.

 

Makes me breathe a little easier... But if it were to happen... What a nightmare...

 

David Hall also said the same thing about the genuine holder.

PCGS also said they would guarantee copper.

Words are cheap, particularly when PCGS/David Hall is the one doing the talking.

 

True enough.

Walking way from the copper guarantee completely seems insane.

However, the previous guarantee that guaranteed the color forever would bankrupt the company at some point in the future (maybe 25 years or maybe 250 years???) since most red copper will fade over time. But to not even guarantee the coins during the first few years (NGC guarantees for 10), when problems from doctoring show up is sort of scary.

 

All of the comments made thus far in this thread have been very good, however I have a few points to add.

I think that first of all, in order to remain competitive, PCGS needs to introduce some of the innovations which have already been seen from the NGC in recent years.

Particularly, I'd love to see PCGS holders in multiple sizes, to accomodate coins larger than 1 oz. which are now becoming quite popular amongst collectors. My particular favorite coin type to collect is the 2 oz. Silver proof, and based on auction prices for these coins, there seems to be a lot of demand for them. Of course, 2 oz., 5 oz., 12 oz. and Kilo size coins will all require different-sized slabs, and the task of introducting them all simultaneously might prove to be a logistical nightmare, for both PCGS and the manufacturers of display cases and carriers for these slabs. If I were David Hall, I would be making a staged roll-out of larger sized slabs, with for instance 2 and 5 oz -sized slabs being introduced first, and then larger slabs being rolled out at some point down the road.

Second, I would like also to see the option of having more information about the coins printed on the tags-- for instance, it would be nice to see the weight of the coin, the metal content, the fineness of the coin, plus maybe even the tare weight of the holder itself, printed underneath the other information that is already there. While not all coin collectors would need or want to see this information, perhaps this could be introduced as an option.

Third, and finally, I do believe that the temptation to counterfeit PCGS slabs will continue to rise, and that PCGS needs to act quickly to make their slabs more secure. One possible way of doing this could be with RFID technology, as has been suggested earler in the forum. Although digital signatures from RFID tags can be captured and reproduced, to do so would require, among other things, actual possession of the original coin slab. Moreover, with an internet-connected network of RFID scanners at authorized PCGS dealers world-wide, any fakes which were in circulation would eventually be detected as duplicates in the network.

I anxiously await the coming annoucements form the PCGS. Although I disagree strongly with their recent Guarantee changes, particularly the Guarantee reduction for Chinese Coins, I for one will likely remain a PCGS member for a long time. Despite their high cost and slow turn-around time, I for one still believe that they are the best- and comparing auction results from otherwise identical coins which have been graded by their competitors, I know that there are plenty of other coin collectors out there who feel the same way.

 

...and RFID scanners at major shows.