PCGS Calendar - what a joke!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iontyre, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    Got my PCGS 2017 calendar the other day. Cover photo was a shock. Sure, it's a rare and desirable coin no doubt. But then I read the description... AU50!!!!!???? I don't care what grading standards you want to make up for a coin like this, but it's a VF25 Details Cleaned and no more! Semi-prooflike fields and hints of coppery toning? LOL!!!!!! No wonder I don't trust these TPGs.
     
    eddiespin likes this.
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  3. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Whats the cert number for it, mine hasnt come yet
     
  4. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Grader, Founding Member

    Contact @messydesk for one of his calendars. Its much better imo. He only has 2 left so hurry up and send him a message or email if you want one!
     
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  5. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    526986.50/333519349
     
  6. OxJaw

    OxJaw Senior Member

    You have an extra 3 in the number, it's 33519349
     
  7. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    There are definitely 3 3's in the photo in the calendar.
     
  8. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Sold out again. The two have been claimed, and I probably won't be ordering more.

    Regarding the Wass Molitor coin referred to earlier, you can't grade these like you would grade a $20 Lib. The detail the coin had when struck was totally different. They have to go on remaining luster and how widespread the wear on the coin is.

    Coincidentally, I put an 1852 $10 WM on my calendar this year, as well. I can't find the grade, but I assume it is XF-AU based on where the detail is sharpest, even though the reverse looks like VF if you're only looking at detail.

    1852wm10d-sm.jpg
     
    Cascade likes this.
  9. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    messydesk, your coin looks much nicer than the one on PCGS calendar. I understand there is a difference with the striking quality and all, still their coin looks plenty circulated, AU is a joke in my estimation.
     
    Michael Clarke likes this.
  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The carter coin just had a weak strike. The detail was never there to wear off
     
  11. Chiefbullsit

    Chiefbullsit CRAZY HORSE

    I got my PCGS calendar Thursday. Took less than a minute to look at it and throw it in the garbage.
     
    dwhiz likes this.
  12. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    I didn't get one yet, so I bought a Strasburg Railroad calendar.
     
    eddiespin and Dave Waterstraat like this.
  13. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    +1 he does great calendars.
     
  14. OxJaw

    OxJaw Senior Member

    Well the calendar is wrong or the PCGS website is wrong.

    http://www.pcgs.com/cert/33519349
     
  15. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator


    The coin in the PCGS calendar is VERY DIFFERENT from that in the images posted by @messydesk.

    First, his is a TEN, and the subject coin is a TWENTY with much more surface area to strike up.

    As relates to your contention that the coin is a cleaned VF, I agree that AU seems too generous a grade, but I would sooner grade the coin an original, uncleaned XF45 than I would a cleaned VF.

    The coin was definitely not well struck, which explains the absence of intended detail, and plenty of luster and original color remains in the protected areas.

    If I knew more about this series, I might agree with the grade assigned, but must plead ignorance, and accept the grade at face value.
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    What research there is available tends to make one think that full strikes are not really a goal for these coins. Here's a similar (but not identical) coin:

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/territoria...ed-unique/a/1204-5445.s?hdnJumpToLot=1x=0&y=0

    A point to be noted for both this and the OP coin is the completeness of the stars and peripheral lettering on the reverse. Contrasted with the weakness of the centers, a reasonable numismatist would question what they were seeing regardless of issue-specific knowledge.
     
  17. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator


    You are mistaken Dave . . . that is the very same coin, albeit in a different holder. Evidently NGC was less conservative than PCGS.

    I think any numismatist, reasonable or not, would first question the lack of central detail in comparison to that in the peripheries. However, one intimately familiar with the coinage of this minter might have foreknowledge of mint-specific die preparation practices, and be able to explain die wear / deformation which the uninitiated, myself included, would not.

    Being unfamiliar with those practices, but understanding metalworking in general, I can only speculate the following:

    I suspect that the reverse die may not have been sufficiently heat treated to obtain through-thickness hardness. This is very plausible because the periphery is closer to the corner intersection of both the outside diameter of the die and the engraved face, meaning more heat would transfer to and from the die at the periphery than at the center of the die if treated incompletely. If the reverse die was indeed insufficiently hard, the central detail may well have eroded before the peripheral detail for that very reason.

    Lacking knowledge of the series, this is pure conjecture, but supportable in the absence of a better explanation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'll be darned, you're right. See what I get for posting before my first cup of coffee? :)

    Radically different imaging, but that should be no excuse for me.
     
  19. David Setree Rare Coins

    David Setree Rare Coins Well-Known Member

    I think AU50 for that issue is a reasonable grade. I remember those trading for $2500-$3000 at my first ANA show. I had driven 6500 miles to attend, had almost $1000 to spend made from pumping gas @$2 hour.

    I bought an 1800 Bust dollar, a 1909 S Indian cent and a 1922 plain Lincoln cent. I believe there was a fourth coin but I can't remember what it was. Maybe an '08 S Indian. I still have the previous three. I sold the 1909 Indian and the 1922 plain several times and they have come back to me after the death of their owners.

    Geesh but I never, ever thought I would make it this long!
     
    Michael Clarke likes this.
  20. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    They want to move those calendars like they know what they're doing put the PCGS girls in there...

     
  21. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    6500 miles? Round trip, I hope, because even if you were working North Slope oil fields and the show was in southern Florida, you're still 1000 miles short unless you got lost reeeeally bad. ;)
     
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