One of the questions that makes the stomach queezy for some of us old time ancient collectors is, "How do I clean my coins so they look bright as new?" Modern collectors handle such questions by a hard and fast rule that you should never clean a coin but all ancients have been cleaned at least to the point of knocking away the several inches of dirt that buried them for the last couple thousand years. Bronze coins sometimes develop a hard green surface coating known as Patina. This is not a microns thin film like the toning on modern coins but a modification and enhancement of the surface that takes centuries to form naturally. There are artificial patinas but they don't look the same certainly don't add to the value of a coin. My latest Falling Horseman of Constantius II has a green patina (not the nicest but not bad either). Last week I showed a completely stripped to metal and retoning coin which I repeat here for comparison. I suspect that several people here will prefer the stripped coin to the green one but they would not like what was left if you removed that green patina and took a lot of the surface with it! Please don't try. You can clean away dirt and soft encrustations but please stop when you get to a hard green layer. The close up image illustrates that natural patinas tend to consist of several shades of green and often even have patches of other colors (red, blue). There are coins with complete patinas in the other colors but green is many times more common. Unfortunately many patinas are a bit thick and can obscure some detail but smoothing them to the point that they look better is an art few possess and a poor job really wrecks the value of the coin and will make many people suspect that the thing is a fake. Which surface do you prefer? I prefer the unpatinated coin but for several reasons having nothing to do with the surface. Green bronzes are pretty; some are really pretty. If you don't care for them, I suggest not buying the coin and leave them for those who do. Your chances of getting something pleasing by removing a patina is very, very slim. Feel free to post coins you feel have pretty patinas.
I hope this thread wasnt started due to my 2 ancients you've seen having the green copper spots. I wouldnt consider those copper spots patina. As for patina's, ive got nothing against them. I have 2 coins with the desert patina and love them. I wouldnt mind one with a red earth patina. I dont own any with the green ones like you have. I think they are very attractive & add character. Only Pantina coins I have online; http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=3303&pos=12 http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=3303&pos=2
Yeah, green patinas are great Hadrian, As As struck in Rome in 126 AD HADRIANUS AVGVSTVS, Laureate head of Hadrian right SALVS AVGVSTI COS III, Salus standing left feeding snake arising from altar. SC in field 11.24 gr Ref : RCV # 3692, Cohen # 1357 But reds are nice too... Hadrian, As As struck in Rome in 121 AD IMP CAESAR TRAIANVS HADRIANVS AVG, Laureate bust of Hadrian right PONT MAX T R POT COS III, Pietas standing, PIE AVG and SC in field 10.57 gr Ref : Cohen #1022, RCV #3687 Q
Green Patina I like them both doug. Beautiful Hadrian coins as well Cucumbor. Here is the only Roman bronze I have that has any sort of greenish patina. ------------------------------------------- Severus Alexander AE Sestertius - 19.88grams - 30mm diameter. OBV.: IMP CAES M AUR SEV ALEXANDER AUG - Laureate and draped bust right. Seen from behind. REV.: PONTIF MAX TRP II COS PP, S C - Providentia standing left, legs crossed, leaning on column, holding wand over globe & cornucopiae. ------------------------------------------- Not the greatest condition either, but I like this bust style of Severus Alexander, and I like the coin itself in general. It was quite hard to get photos that show the actual coloration of the patina, I did some with flash, some without.... hopefully by looking at them all, you can get an idea of the color of the patina. All four photos are of the same coin here.
Definatly prefer patina, and green is a +.With the 2 you posted, both are nice but I still like the stripped one a lil more
I'm probably more partial towards the ones with patina however, I wouldn't snub a stripped one if the details were there.
Interesting topic. I certainly prefer the green shades of patina over dark or black patina, and also over "Tiber" or river patina. I have heard, however, that "Blue" patina is the most desired, but I have never seen a coin with blue patina. Besides patina, the condition of the surface is also important: i.e, is it a totally untouched patina, or one which has been smoothed. I recently saw a Trajan sestertius with totally original and untouched green patina. It was a beautiful coin, but such coins are very rare. Here is a sestertius of Gordian III which I found many years ago. Besides a quick wash under cold water, this sestertius is totally untouched and as-found. It has an emerald green tone (more vivid than in the pictures) which is as original as one can expect to see.
Ancient IMHO~Prior to last month I had no ancients. Then I won a contest and received a few. And they are gREAT! Some are brillo~padded enough to discern origin. Two are green as Kermit~and I prefer those. I mean, they look Ancient!
Nice patina is in the eye of the beholder: Billon tetradrachm [Emperor Probus], Alexandria mint, 7.089g, 20.3mm, 0o, 29 Aug 276 - 28 Aug 277 A.D.; obverse AK M AVP PPOBOC CEB, laureate and cuirassed bust right; reverse , Elpis standing left, holding flower and raising skirt, date B / L left (year 2) guy
It is I think something you really have to warm up to. With pretty much anything else in the field, green is a sign to run, excepting ancients. I don't have any, though I do have one with a very nice desert patina. (which I have shown before). Of course, that isn't saying much as my ancient collection can be counted on your fingers without repeating any!
Hard green patina is the one patina I will pay for. I think coins look fantastic with them, and as far as I know it cannot be replicated, (unlike toning on moderns and most other patinas on ancients. Other than that, while I have nothing against cleaning ancients, as most need it, I always prefer a more natural patina over a fresh cleaned coin if I have that option. I even prefer a retoned coin over a fresh cleaned one, as having a shiny ancient coin to me somehow feels wrong. Chris
There is also a difference in opinion on what constitutes a proper use of the word 'Patina'. Hard Green is patina in everyone's book but we also see some toned coins called 'brown patina', some yellowing tone commonly seen on coins plucked from a river called 'Tiber patina' and, most commonly, coins with hard packed dirt on the surface in the recesses called 'sand patina'. I suspect that I am not the only one here who would be upset if someone sold me a coin in these categories and called the condition 'patina'. Many toned or sandy dirt caked coins are pretty but they are not really patinas any more than German Silver is Silver.
