Opinions sought : Fourrée denarius?

This was in one of my mixed lots and I have no idea whether it's a Severus Alexander fourrée denarius or a genuine one where base metal that has leeched out onto the surface has corroded. I have basically zero experience with these, but know we have some fourrée collectors here. Would appreciate your opinions, and also suggestions on whether I should try to clean it, and how.

Thanks!

 

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This one looks like a good candidate for cleaning with weak acid. Try white vinegar or lemon juice. It might take a few minutes or even a few hours and you'll have to keep a fairly close watch.

Remember that Pontos Perseus & Medusa I found at a jewelry store? It had very similar green oxides which dissolved right off without any (well, very minimal) mechanical action. If you use acid and it works, be sure to give it a very long soak in distilled water afterwards. Change several times. With the Pontos, after an initial water rinse I gave it a brief soak in a sodium bicarb solution and then did multiple plain water soaks.

Of course it is possible that if you clean it will acid you will ruin it.

 

I do not think this is fourree and agree with TIF's instructions including the last line. On the other hand, you will not be ruining it as much as just not resurrecting it.

 

Thanks, both. I'll give the white vinegar/lemon juice a shot and we'll see what emerges.

 

Good luck, Z-bro (please show us the results either way after you've finished your science experiment)

 

indeed..please update when you done, i'd like to see how it comes out.

 

Well, I gave it 3 or 4 minutes in lemon juice and then a quick light brush. This is what we have...



It looks like bare copper particularly around the obverse edge at 12-1 o'clock. Can we conclude that the undead has been exposed for what it is and that we're looking at a fourrée?

Here's another shot highlighting the edge and the pitted surface:

 

Great photos, Z-Bro ... the ol' copper denarius, eh?

=> seems like you've solved your own mystery (good sleuthing, my friend)

 

Hmm, not a very happy ending.

 

Bummer!

 

Well, I have been looking to pick up a fourrée, though I wasn't planning on paying $27 for it, and certainly not one looking like this . The other way for me to look at it is that I have the cost of the other 10 coins in the lot bumped up another 10% or so (still acceptable for what they are), and got the fourrée free!

 

I'll be the odd man out and say I like it. I couldn't tell what it was from the first pic - I thought perhaps an AE denarius with bronze disease. The cleaning, however, shows that it clearly is a fourrée, and as fourrées go, it's a fine demonstration of the base metal core from which much of the plating has peeled off. It is what it is, and you either find these things interesting or you don't. I happen to have a small collection of them, as I'm fascinated by the various ways the ancients imitated silver.

 

I'd not value a solid coin like this at $27 so I'd certainly bump up the others and call this free. Had it not been fourree, the other choice would be leeched and porous which is hardly better.

 

I have to agree with Doug. I don't think you lost anything cleaning it. Now you know for sure what you have. The way it was could not be described as better.

 

I'm glad I cleaned it up and found out what it was, even though I wasn't too happy with the result. Not so much that it was fourree but that it was a fourree whose appearance I couldn't get too thrilled about. JA's zombie mule fourree sets the bar high.

 

I think you mean LOW. These coins are also an important part of ancient numismatics. Are they pretty? Hell no, but they are intriguing. Here's my complete short set: the zombie mule, a tribute penny, the AE core of an RR denarius of Crepusius, and a Julia Domna limes denarius...



Anyone interested in ancient imitation silver should read Greco-Roman Alchemy and Coins of Imitation Silver by Paul T. Keyser, published in ANJ 7-8, which ANE has for sale right at the moment for three bucks and shipping. We often complain about how expensive numismatic texts can get. There's no excuse not to catch up on your reading in this case.

And if anyone is disappointed at not seeing a "nice" denarius of S. Alexander in this thread, I've got one of those for show-and-tell also...

 

Well at least some of the details are more visible. I'd still say it's a decent coin though.

 

While I do not have one, the ultimate fourree is one with the core rotted away and the outer skin largely intact. I once saw a 3/4 complete copper skin of a Nero as missing what was probably an iron interior. I have no idea where it is now.

 

Imagine my surprise when I was playing around with my odds and ends that I had not id'ed yet, when I suddenly discovered on WildWinds that the ONLY Aequitas reverse of Severus Alexander are gold or silver. This was always one of my favorite coins because of the VERY high relief of the emperor's portrait. Now it's even higher on my list: It's a denarius! The bronze-like color had fooled me for years! To think I paid $3.75 for it as part of a set of uncleaned coins. Pic coming up...