Just wondering - would you prefer to own a solid about good(no corrosion or damage) or a corroded(or damaged) very good large cent? Actually thinking of the Liberty Cap or Draped bust types. I seem to see so many of these in anacs holders and some of them do not look to bad. And you can consider cost into the equation - I think if I ever own a chain cent it will probably not be a problem free coin. Second can someone verify why this Heritage auction coin is tooled. My thoughts were that the date and liberty look bolder than what the wear on the coin should indicate. Just wondering what to look for. The price ranges for some of the early large cents (between something like g and vg) can be hundreds of dollars(or thousands looking at my grey sheet). Then depending on the coin the cost can fall anywhere in the range. Sometimes looking at the coin you can see it falls in between grades - so how do you determine what is a good price? Eye appeal or just your impression or judgement? Enough for tonight.
Speaking for me personally I would always prefer to own problem free coins. As for the tooling - I would say that LIBERTY on the obverse and a large part of the legends on that coin had been tooled. When it comes to determining a fair price I always check auction archives, that gives me an idea of what coins in a given grade will cost. It is never this or that - it is always a range. Once I know that much then I grade the coins myself and I know if it is priced fairly or not. If the price is a bit high, but the coin really appeals to me - fine pay it. But it would at least have to be "close" to the range. Even if the coin is priced low, but it doesn't appeal to me - I would walk away.
Using your example, I would choose the AG coin. But more likely, I would save up and get a problem free G or VG...as AG coins don't generally do it for me -- they just don't have enough detail. Unless you cannot afford a problem-free example, I say ignore the ones with problems. Problem free liberty cap, draped bust and classic head large cents are often hard to find (draped bust will be the easiest, by far), but not so much so that they are impossible. Hold out and you will find a nice one. Here's a dealer that I work with that has both problem and problem-free large cents in all price ranges: Shawn Yancey. Pricing for large cents is a bit of an art form. Ultimately the value of a coin depends on how much you, as a buyer, is willing to pay, and this really depends on the coin in question. Expect to pay a sharp premium for so-called "choice" coins...the ones that have superior eye appeal, have nice strikes and are well centered, have a nicely colored planchet free of spots/verdergris/corrosion, and have not been recolored or otherwise messed with. As far as the coin in question -- I could not see the tooling, but the scratch across the bust is questionable, and the coin may have had some work done on the reverse to smooth out a rim bump. The micro granularity identified as corrosion is obvious, however, and is very much par for the course with classic head large cents (the majority will be dark and suffer from corrosion). Once you find a nice coin with no problems, original color, and a nice planchet, expect to pay quite a bit over greysheet for it -- as with the classic head large cents, perhaps one in a hundred or more coins fits the bill. Here are the VF examples of the draped bust and classic head large cents from my type set. It took me almost a year to find them, and I had to pay out the wazoo once I did: Liberty cap is next on my list, but I haven't started my studies or search in earnest yet, so I really can't comment on the series....where's Conder101 when you need him? Hope this helps...Mike
Like most people I would usually rather have a problem free coin and I would rather have the AG than a problem VG. (Now if there is more "meat" on the coin then my opinion may change. If you make that a mild problem Fine then I may go for the sharper piece.) I can't afford the nicer pieces so most of my cent are low grade and many of them are problem coins. As far as what they are worth, it depends on whether or not you are doing varieties or just looking for a type piece. For a type piece track the auctions and you can probably get a fair handle on what a common type piece will bring. Varieties are a totally different animal. There are only a couple of price guides for varieties, and usually it seems that the guides don't really matter because when the next copper auction comes around you can usually bid double what the guide says and still lose 50 to 75 percent of the lots. Trying to use typical auction results when you are dealing with anything other than the most common varieties is probably pretty much worthless. When I got into the early date cents problem free good draped bust cents listed for $30 and could often be purchased for $20. AG or problem coins could be had for $10. I make more now than I did back then, but there is no way I could afford to build the collection I have now at todays prices. And my collection only averages G-4. Leadfoot, I'm not surprised you paid out the wahzoo for those two coins. The 1810 is a common variety, but being an overdate it tends to be unusually popular. But the real reason is that it has pretty nice surfaces for a classic head, much better than normally seen. Most people look at the regular price guides for that series would think thatthey could et a nice problem free coin for a reasonable amount of money. But then when they actually start looking for one they find that the problem free nice surface coins are few and far between and most of them are in strong hands. The coins that change hands at the price guide levels are NOT problem free and are frequently overgraded. When a true problem free piece comes on the market they will usually bring multiples of the guide prices. The 1798 on the other hand is a different animal. Nice 1798's can be found, but not for the reverse of 1796 varieties. There are only three reverse of 96 varieties and they all tend to come on dark rough planchets. Two of them (S-156 and S178) are VERY rare. This one, the S-155, is scarce as a variety and also usually comes on bad planchets and in low grades. Yours is exceptionable. If it doesn't make the condition census it is definitely flirting with the lower end of it. You coin is just a little less condition wise than the one in the Jack Robinson sale and it was rated as the fourth finest known. I can understand why the price was high.
Thanks - all the opinions and advice help. I think one of the keys is to be patient. I see a lot of coins being auctioned (or for sell) that are problem coins. I also have a couple. And I do not know why, but some of the problem free solid AG's appeal to me.
If you like it, go for it. Ultimately your opinion is the only one that matters....Mike p.s. thanks for the kind words Conder.
Sorry to bring this back up and thank you all again for the advice and the web site. When I look at thishttp://www.earlycoppercoins.com/4966-s133.jpg coin and I compare it to one of mine, mine wins hands down. Did I miss something on his coin? I am sorry the scans are not the best - white specs and all, darker than what the coin really is, etc. I bought this coins because it was problem free and I paid 1/2 of what he is asking - kind of makes me feel good, kind of. I think I might scan the other 1797 to see what you all think. Might take a week with my current schedule. I think the other 1797 is slightly better - kind of makes me think I missed something. Now I :bow: to your humble wisdom as I go retreat in blissful sleep.
Remember many people collect these coins by variety -- so the difference in price may well be the result of rarity of the variety... That being said, I agree -- your coin wins hands down. Much more attractive and problem-free.
It is like leadfoot mentions, the price difference is because of the die variety. Your coin is a Sheldon 131 a popular variety but one that is fairly common. It is a low R-3 so there are maybe around 600 of them out there. The other coin that you liked is a Sheldon 133. It is a much rarer variety at R-5. There are around 50 to 75 known of this variety There are probably around 600 or so collectors of Draped bust cents by variety, maybe 200 to 300 of them serious collectors by variety. So there are plenty of opportunities for them to aquire an S-131, but only 1 out of every 3 serious collectors can own an S-133. So when one is available the price is high. As an aside the obverse of your S-131 also come paired with a differeent reverse that also doesn't have stems on the wreath. That coin, designated NC-8, is currently unique and would be worth in the mid five figures. The key is knowing how to tell it from yours.
Thanks - and if I get time I will ask about the other 1797 in another thread. I have asked for some books for xmas and if nobody buys them I will get them myself. So far I have only been looking for dates, but I am looking forward to try to attibute the coins I do have.
I'm looking at large cents right now myself for a type set. I think I would rather own a G-VG clean smooth one, then a F-VF corroded or tooled one. Just my two (large) cents worth.
