Opinions. Dark toned Morgan

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Barney McRae, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    Got this one recently and it appears to be in good shape without being cleaned but it is a toned pig pen. Not attractive to me at all, but it might look awesome if "rinsed" and the environmental dirt got rinsed off. My estimate grade is AU 50-58. 97 dark ob.jpg 97 dark rev.jpg No great shakes either way, barely paid more than melt for it. I have no idea what the patina will look like afterwards though. Does this look attractive to ANYONE? To me, it's a floating dumpster fire. I bought it to experiment on. Opinions please, fire away!
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  3. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    A good one to experiment on as you say. Only 2,288,000 minted but it looks to be in F-40 or EF-45. That dark toning is hiding some of the wear.
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  4. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    I'm with you, ugly looking. To me anyway. Considering what you paid for it a "restoration attempt" could not hurt.
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  5. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    " Ugly is in the eye of the beholder" or something like that.... I sort of like it. Call it the "Big Black Beauty". wink.png
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  6. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    Big Mike? :yuck:
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  7. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    I like toning but this one is too dark for me.

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  8. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I'd be tempted to use it to learn the rate at which one can control lightening color, as follows:

    Dip it for a split second, immediately rinse it off, air dry it and photograph.

    Repeat those steps until the coin is stark white and ugly.

    Then examine the photos and compare the number of times you dipped it with the level of appeal that would have pleased you, and that where you felt you went too far.
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  9. Visalia

    Visalia New Member

    Iv got some morgans that are like this except they have silver X across them where they were taped into a folder. Acetone took off the residue but the toning is God awful. Should I use foil and baking soda method or? They have no eye appeal at all how they are currently.
  10. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Not sure on the foil and baking soda method but I would make a post of your own with Pics. please. Thanks.
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  11. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    I got a terminal toner. I like it the way it is.
    20181019_084023.jpg 20181019_084031.jpg
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  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And nobody else ever does either. That's the thing about dipping coins, it's always a crapshoot.

    That said, years ago there was a dealer who got his hands on a rare date/mint Morgan that looked much like yours, but toned even darker. It was slabbed and graded, he'd paid $56,000 for it. But he knew that since it was mark free and if he dipped it and it still retained its luster under that dark black toning - that its value and grade would increase greatly. So he decided to roll the dice.

    He dipped the coin, which immediately removed the black toning which revealed very nice luster underneath it. He sent it in for grading again and it came back a 65. He put it in an auction and the coin realized $152,000.

    It is not at all uncommon to find a gem hidden by all that dark toning. But it is also not at all uncommon to find dull, lifeless surface where the luster has been destroyed by all that dark toning. In the end it all comes down on whether you're willing to roll the dice or not.
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  13. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    All Morgans are beauties and should be very well received, yours is no exception it's gorgeous. Not many like it, leave it alone!
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  14. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    According to one of the people who write copy for a major auction house, the 1794 dollar, which is graded SP-66 and sold for $10 million +, was dipped, which improved its appearance. It took a lot courage to dip that one in the mild acid. It sure wouldn’t have been me.
  15. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    These can be dipped and they'll still grade, but it has to be done right. On cleaning it up some, you're right on top of the issue, it's the destruction of any remaining luster, so be careful. Just use inert solvents. Don't rub it. Acetone won't hurt it none and it could loosen things up some. It'll also kill anything trying to grow there. I'd give it a shot. You've an EF coin that should trade without any problems. I'm good with how it looks, too.
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  16. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks for sharing that story, very interesting. Well, I soaked the coin in a covered bowl of pure acetone for 12 hours, no change, and no discolored residue in the acetone. I rinsed and dried it, then carefully applied heaping dabs of MS70 with a Q-tip swab, one side at a time, a rinse in between with hot water. No rubbing with the QTip, just lightly rolling it. A little bit of blue purple showed up on the Qtip but not a lot. I rinsed thoroughly, patted it dry, and let it finish drying. The coin now shows a bit more luster, but it's color remains unchanged.
    I may purchase some EZ-est to dip it one day. I'm a little wary of acid dips because it seems to create some knock down drag out discussions about chemically altering a coin. What do you think?
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    None of what you did is going to change the terminal color. Someone said above to definitely dilute the Ezest if you use it, I agree.
    Also, the aluminum foil and baking soda gives good results, and from what I have been told is a milder method. I have never dipped a coin so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
  18. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    I had great results once with a coin that was absolutely filthy that got washed with MS70. The toning underneath the filth was spectacular. This one is a different animal, it did not get toned from dirt. The transformation was amazing on the one I just mentioned. Had it been done before it went up for sale, I never would have gotten it, because the bidding up would have been ridiculous, and I don't chase.
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Easy answer - don't !

    Now don't misunderstand, when used properly, coin dip has absolutely done more to improve the looks and condition/grade of more coins than can be counted. Literally tens of millions of coins that are found in all TPG slabs have been successfully dipped. The TPGs themselves dip coins on an hourly basis - every day ! Those most knowledgeable in numismatics estimate that 80% of all older coins have been dipped. And in many cases dipping has saved a whole lot of coins from certain destruction. The very reason we have so many beautiful coins to look at today is because they have been dipped. My point here is that I am absolutely not against dipping coins ! It is not only often the right thing to do, it is often necessary to do it.

    But the key here is doing it properly ! And it should only be done by those with the knowledge and experience to do it, and do it properly.

    When it is done by those without the requisite knowledge and experience it is beyond common and all too easy for the coin to be permanently damaged. Because based on your comments and questions you obviously don't have that knowledge and experience that is required. This is why I answer your question by saying - don't !
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  20. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    But but but........I bought this stinker for that very purpose! :D Have to learn somehow. I don't mess with BUs or key date sliders, period. I don't collect copper, so not worried about those either.

    Don't know if you've seen the Seinfeld episode or not but, "Why did you use the balm? Who told you to use it? The balm is a wild card! Nobody knows what a balm will do!":p
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And I encourage you to learn, but when it comes to dipping coins in order to learn you need a teacher - somebody that already knows how to do it correctly. And it's not really something that is best taught by books or the written word, it is something that needs to be taught face to face, in person.

    That said, there are things you can learn do it yourself style by utilizing trial and error methods. But just about everything you can learn from that method is what not to do. And what you need to learn is what to do.

    My suggestion, go to a dealer's shop, look at his junk bin, pick out a bunch of toned coins of various denominations and metals, the lot of them will only cost you a few dollars. And also ask him if he knows how to correctly dip coins. And if he says yes, ask him if he'd show you an example or two of his successes. If they look good, the luster is intact, then ask him if he'd be willing to help teach you. Maybe even offer to pay him a bit for his services.

    If he says no to either or all, then take the coins you bought and go experiment on your own, while you continue to look for a teacher.

    My point here is that Morgan you've got, that's 1 coin, and I promise you you're not going to learn much, if anything, from 1 coin. If it was me, I'd save that one as kind of like your final exam subject. I believe it would be a good example for that !

    And while you're experimenting try this experiment. Put a small amount of coin dip in a shallow bowl, maybe a half inch deep. And get another bowl, and pour some distilled water into that bowl so it's maybe an inch or two deep. Then mix a half teaspoon or so of baking soda into that water, stir until it's completely dissolved. Then hold a coin vertically, holding one edge, and dip the bottom half of the coin into the coin dip until it hits bottom. Don't hold it there, don't leave it there, just dip it in and pull it right back out as fast as you can. Then immediately dip it all the way into the water and swish well to rinse it thoroughly and neutralize the coin dip. Then examine the coin.

    Repeat the process with several coins. But you'll need a new batch of clean distilled water and soda each and every time.

    Doing this will show you just exactly what coin dip does and just exactly how fast coin dip works. And with each example you'll have a before dip and after dip example right in front of your eyes to examine.

    Just doing that much will show you lot, but it's not what you need to learn to be successful with dipping coins. But it will prove to you that you're gonna need a teacher.
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