Oops! I bought another one.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orfew, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    This came up for auction last week and I put in a low bid. What I forgot to do was to check my list to see if I had one already. When I saw it I noticed that it was misattributed and that it had "CENS POT" in the reverse legend. I am actively seeking these coins. The problem is that they are quite rare.

    Anyway, here is the coin I already had.

    Domitian 342 small.jpg
    Domitian. Denarius. Rome 85 CE. (Fifth Issue)
    Obv: Head laureate r; IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM PM TR P V
    Rev: Minvera advancing r with spear and shield; IMP VIIII COS XI CENS POT PP
    RIC-342 (R2). BMC –
    Jesus Vico Mail bid auction # 153 Lot 3136 March 7, 2019
    Coin depicted on the Wildwinds database

    Here is the one I just bought

    Domitian RIC 342 new.jpg
    Domitian AR Denarius. Rome, AD 85.
    3,3 g. 21 mm
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P V; laureate head right
    Rev: IMP VIIII COS XI CENS POT P P.; Minerva advancing right, holding spear and shield.
    RIC II 342
    Ex: Themis Numismatics auction July 20, 2019 Lot 66

    The colouring makes it look much flatter than it is. I also happen to like the portrait very much.

    Post your coins of which you accidentally bought duplicates.
     
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  3. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    We all do that occasionally, in fact, I do it many times on purpose! :happy:
    Seems like you did well...maybe subliminally? :D;)
     
  4. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..well Orfew, you can now start on your 4th silver 12 :rolleyes:
     
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I haven't bought any duplicates yet but I've accumulated a number of Gordie III ants. Probably too many.
     
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  6. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Naw...3 in sliver and working on one in bronze is more than enough. Instead I will seek out upgrades and some real rarities within the bounds of the 12 Caesars.
     
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  7. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..3 is a magic number..that's how many i need to complete my 1st silver 12(Julius, Caligula & his uncle)..i was gonna concentrate on that this year but ..(ADD/OCD) ....in fact, i wasn't gonna buy ANY coins this month (I've now bought 6 in July..so far):rolleyes::eek::D .in honor of your extra buy, here's my 'one & only' Domitian dupondius, denarius 005.JPG Domitian dupondius, denarius 004.JPG
     
  8. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I had been initially eyeing up this one that was listed via auction...
    [​IMG]
    Phrygia, Apameia
    AE22, Circa 100-50 BC
    Kokos as magistrate

    Obverse: Bust of Athena right, wearing high-crested Corinthian helmet and aegis.
    Reverse: AΠΑΜΕΩN above, KΩKOY below, eagle alighting on basis with meander pattern, caps of the Dioscuri, surmounted by star, flanking, star above.
    References: SNG Cop 161-162, BMC 78-82


    ...but before the auction was over, I ended up buying this one outright...
    [​IMG]
    Phrygia, Apameia
    AE22, Circa 100-50 BC
    Kokos as magistrate

    Obverse: Bust of Athena right, wearing high-crested Corinthian helmet and aegis.
    Reverse: AΠΑΜΕΩN above, KΩKOY below, eagle alighting on basis with meander pattern, caps of the Dioscuri, surmounted by star, flanking, star above.
    References: SNG Cop 161-162, BMC 78-82
    Size: 22mm, 7.5g

    ...then I still won the auction and ended up having two.
     
  9. EduardoJuano

    EduardoJuano New Member

    Hate to pass bad news here but the OP coin is definitely a fake. It has all characteristic of fake. I even doubt if metal is right. Looks too greyish with low silver which is definitely wrong for the Flavians. Also the surface is not good with bubbles seen all over.
     
  10. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    No wonder Domitian has become scarcer to find, @Orfew has cornered the market on them. Just out of curiosity Orfew, how big is your collection of Flavians?
     
  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..hmm...now that you mention it...could it be @Orfew ??
     
  12. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Here is the auction photo. Mine was taken after I cleaned off near 2000 years worth of gunk and encrustations.

    Domitian RIC 342 themis.jpg
    The dark spots you see on the coin are leftovers from the cleaning process.There are no casting bubbles just areas where I did not want to strip the coin. I have this coin in hand, the silver is just fine. It looks grey because I did not want to remove the entire patina from the coin. I hate shiny silver. The auction photo shows the coin as yellow. It was not yellow before I cleaned it but it was covered in encrustations as you can see from the mottled appearance.

    Go ahead and click on the OP photo to enlarge it, you will see that the dark spots are not casting bubbles.
     
  13. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    I have 95 coins in my 12 Caesars collection. 58 are Flavian.
     
  14. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Really? I would have thought you had more like 400 or 500 since you are always posting Flavian coins.
     
  15. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    For the moment I am only chasing the rare ones in silver. This keeps the numbers down.
     
  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The coin looks fine to me and sets off no alarm bells. I wouldn't worry about it.
     
    Jay GT4 and Orfew like this.
  17. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Nifty coin, but can you contextualize "quite rare" for me in relative or absolute terms? And when you say that you're actively seeking the CENS POT coins, does that refer specifically to these RIC342 pieces or do other denarii qualify? I'd like to share your excitement but am too ignorant to understand their importance :(

    I haven't accidentally bought duplicates yet but have plenty of intentional ones, octuplicates even! :D
     
    Orfew likes this.
  18. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Sorry, I wanted to be sure of my research before replying. There were 2 issues of CENS POT denarii, the 4th and 5th issues of 85 CE. All of the CENS POT denarii are R2 (very few examples known). There is also 1 single aureus known for the fourth issue. There are bronze coins with CENS POT and some of these are actually common. As to why these issues are interesting we need to know what happened in 82 CE. Domitian reformed the coinage. He increased the fineness of the denarii to levels seen when Augustus ruled. That is, he undid the reforms of Nero who debased the denarii. The 2 issues previous to the 4th and 5th used the tiles CENSORIA POTESTATE and CENS POTES. These are very rare coins. They are all R2 or R3 (unique). After the CENS POTES issue the denarii were debased back to the post reform Neronian standard. So the 4th and 5th issues are interesting because they are the first issues after Domitian debased the denarii.

    As for the coins I am interested in I would like to get as many from the 4th and 5th issues as possible. I am not only interested in RIC 342.



    There are 2 on ACSearch. One is Ex: Harry Sneh, one is Ex: Dr. Jyrki Muona.

    RIC mentions 2 and one is the Dr Muona coin. One is in the Berlin collection.

    There is 1 on OCRE. It is the Berlin example in RIC.

    None in the London or Paris collections.

    4 in the Forum galleries including my first example. One of these belongs to David and is an Ex: Harry Sneh, Ex: Dr. Muona coin.

    There are 2 on Coryssa. One is Ex: Harry Sneh, Ex: Dr. Muona. The other is Ex: Harry Sneh and is one of the examples on Acsearch.

    There is one in the CNG archives. It is one of the coins on Coryssa.

    Then there is the one I just received.


    So unless I miscalculated I believe that makes fewer than 6-7 examples. If there are fewer than 10 known, I think that makes them "quite rare".

    I hope this answers your question.
     
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  19. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I had this one ...

    Hadrian Fortuna Denarius.jpg

    ... but bought this one by mistake!

    Hadrian Fortuna Denarius duplicate.jpg
     
  20. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

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  21. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I justify keeping the second one because it's better centered and the break in the obverse inscription is different! ;)
     
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