Assuming you had the money and liked these coins, how far up the grading scale would you buy into? How nice is nice enough? Although not experienced at this, I worry that it is easy to manipulate grading within 1 point and it gets to the point of opinion. You could lose hundreds or thousands of dollars being off by one grade. The latest book I read said TPG's decide what the coin is worth and THEN assign a grade corresponding to that market value. So depending on whether there is an "up" or "down" market, the grade will vary......uuggghhhhh. I just picked these as being a representative example: COIN........PF-62RB.....PF-63RB....PF-64RB.....PF-65R 1870 2 cent...400.........500...........600........3,500 Difference in price is small ~10-20% until you get to PF-65 COIN.............MS-60...MS-62..MS-63......MS-64....MS-65 1886-O Morgan....700....2,000....4,000....10,000..200,000 Difference is large ~200+% and very expensive. You could make (or loose) very easily. Averaging obverse vs. reverse? Accounting for field quality? Where and how many bag marks? No so cut and dry IMHO. COIN.....MS-63...MS-64....MS-65....MS-66....MS-67.MS-68 1976 IKE....14.......20........25.........40.........75......375 1978-D IKE...5......20.......75..........325......5,000 Differences as a percent are large, but relatively small for actual dollar amount. So where would YOU stop on the buying scale for either enjoyment or investment? For the Morgan, $190,000 would buy a lot of other coins.
1870 in pf 64rb is nice.. id like one the 1880 o morgan ms 62 and both ikes in 65 so you get all the coins in your view at the same cost of your pf 65 2cent..
I think your book is either wrong or you've misread it as graders assign "grades", not values since "values" are directly related to grade and, generally speaking, are relative to the selling media. IF a grader were assigning a "value", then that value would have to be based upon something which more than likely is what the grader would pay. Cross referencing that "value" would then haveto go against some scale and every body knows that the TPG scales are just simply screwed up. What I think happens is that graders assign and then agree upon a grade. The coin gets graded and then sells. The TPG's then track what the coin sells for and records that data for the {rice Guide. If it were the ther way around (i.e. value before grade) then moderns and new releases would all be no grades since values have not been established for them. Take into account that "graded populations" play a big factor in modern coin prices/values and the premise of value before grade goes right out the window. BTW, to respond to the question: I would buy the highest grade that I could afford.
I thought so too but this is the book: " The New York Times Guide to Coin Collecting: Do's, Don'ts, Facts, Myths, and a Wealth of History " by Ed Reiter. He interviewed Mr. Hall owner of PCGS who said (I don't have the exact quote) "I look at a coin and decide, this is an $800 coin. I then assign a grade to place it at that value"
While value grading exists within the TPG's, you should know that David Hall is well known for making controversial off the cuff comments about numismatic topics. His infamous quote about all Peace Dollars being artificially toned comes to mind. That said, I would be interested in seeing the actual quote in context as I fear you are misinterpreting his point.
I tend to not buy graded coins when possible (I crack them out of the slabs anyway). I especially do not like buying MS coins in holders, as the whole MS-6?/price game gets a bit ridiculous. But, if I do buy a graded mint state coin, I typically shoot for the grade that is just below the big jump in price.
That is an excellent strategy and one that many collectors do not understand. (The same strategy can apply to circulated coins.)
19lyds, that is funny. Guy and Cherd, how do you buy then? Leheigh96: I returned the book to the library but the author, Ed Reiter, concluded with something like "so that resolves the long standing debate on whether coins are graded based on price or condition (alone)". I'm sure condition has something to do with it. He then went into some discussion about coins being graded higher so they would have a higher price in an "up" market and graded lower in a "down" market so they would be worth less. (I think I got that correct but makes no sense to me). You can probably get the book on an inter-library loan. It's an interesting read. Not quite so intimating as "The Coin Collector's Survival Guide". Anyone with any common sense would RUN, not walk, away from the whole coin thing after reading that book IMHO. Guess that's why I'm still here. I appreciate the responses from people who have been doing this for a while. My experience is just looking through the Redbook which is not real world of coin shows and deal making. Something about buying on grade seems like a trap but I am just not sure why.
Weather it is for my personal collection or inventory I try to buy coins graded EF45, AU58, or MS64 if they are common and scarce coins. If they are rare... well then you buy whatever is offered. The commonly used grading scale as everyone knows goes from 1-70 and that is normally how the price guides and most of the public price their coins. I tend to view the grades in segments or brackets. If the coin is an extra fine, then I only want an EF45 which is the best you can get in the extra fine bracket. Most EF45 in my opinion are better than most AU50 and a lot of AU53s. If the coin is in the almost uncirculated bracket, then I only want an AU58, which is the best you can get in the AU bracket. Most AU58s you will find are in much better condition than most of the MS60s, 61s, and a lot of the 62-63s. I as well as a lot of more seasoned collectors view AU58s as MS64s with some rub. That is what people are referring to when calling a coin AU64. When you get into the higher MS grades, I think you get better value for your money in the MS64 range but not all 64s are the same. You will need to search for high grade MS64s. If the seller knows his coins then you will normally have to pay a premium to get that nice 64, but it is worth it. Great coins are not cheap and cheap coins are not great.
I'd have to see the coins. Grade numbers don't mean squat to me and often I will prefer a lower graded coin to a higher one.
jhinton, I mostly agree with your preference for high end XF AU coins over the low grade MS coins. Once, I bought a raw "MS64" 1921 Peace$ from a well known coin dealer. I paid decent money but I always had my doubts due to the difficulty in grading these high relief coins. I went back to the coin show the next day and showed the coin to other dealers. They (3) all to me that it was an AU coin. They saw wear where, then, I could not distinguish between wear and the strike that this coin may and often does have. I had no problem returning the coin to the dealer but it left a bad taste in my mouth knowing that a well known dealer had this coin in a 2x2 holder marked MS64. He was just waiting to take advantage of someone who wanted a really nice MS '21 Peace $. I later,that day, bought a beautiful AU P$ for $130 and was very satisfied. This story was related in an earlier thread some years ago. I don't need to spend huge amounts of money to get a coin that fits my preferences.
