ONE MORE TIME

I am sure this has been covered variously since Hector had pups, but can coins be graded in the 60-70 range and be circulated? Or do the MS grades mean and assure the coins in question are not circulated? I'm tired of always playing the grading game conservatively and ending up with too many AU58s.

 

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"MS" means "Mint State," by definition not circulated. Doesn't mean that coins found in circulation haven't made it into MS slabs.

 

MS means there is no wear from circulation, you may be able to find a mint state coin that hasn't started to wear yet in circulation, but any trace of wear knocks it out of the MS grades.

 

Very good, thanks to you both. I will go on the basis that coins graded 60-70 are uncirculated, but there will always be those exceptions.

 

Whether a coin can be considered "uncirculated" really comes down to semantics. I recall how in 2005 I found a 1989D dime in a roll from the bank in literally "Mint BU" condition. It had, and still has, a nice sharp, bright and shiny orange/red edge (which wears fast for clad), and no trace of wear at all. Clearly, the coin had been in "circulation" for a very short time before I found it. So, is it still "uncirculated" considering I found it in circulation? It is to me but to a purist, perhaps not.

 

What if I picked a coin out of a Mint bag, held it only by the edge and went to my local candy store and used it to buy a Mars bar, and the cashier took the coin as payment for the Mars bar, but held it by its edge and then carefully placed it into an airtite?

Still circulated?

 

The term "uncirculated" is pretty much meaningless, and has largely been abandoned in favor of "mint state" when referring to a coin's grade. What's important is the amount of wear on the coin (or lack thereof), not whether it has ever been spent.

 

The coin should appear uncirculated. Doesn't matter if it actually was spent just how it appears.

 

Yes, by strictest definition. It's been used in commerce. It's circulated.

Unfortunately, the subjective nature of numismatics turns this black and white statement into endless greyscale, because only the eyes and education of the grader actually make the determination of whether or not the coin is "circulated." If it looks Mint State to the educated eye, it's Mint State. Not like the grader ever knows for sure if it actually circulated. Coins can be physically handled for a while before they show any signs of it; there are probably coins in my pocket which would be adjudicated as Mint State if I submitted them.

 

This is it, right here ^

 

So what I get from your statement is this: Labels such as "uncirculated" and "Mint State grades" (if seen as a gradient of higher forms of "uncirculatedness") are not the right lens through which to view any kind of mark or abrasion that has happened post minting, since the origin of such marks or abrasions probably cannot be attributed.

The "abrasions and marks" on a coins' surface should be viewed through the lens of "wear" only, with comparisons between coins as "higher grade" or "lower grade."

Right?

 

Circulated, cleaned...if you can't tell, it isn't.

 

so what exactly do we mean when we say someones brain is in mint state?

 

It means it's in the state of preservation it was in when it was struck by the dies. It could still be a weak strike, though, or have cracks in it, or planchet abnormalities.

 

And "wear" takes place outside of the minting facility and outside of the mint bag, only. This is what you are saying.

Let's say that this Morgan dollar (graded MS-60 by PCGS) never left its sealed mint bag, but got all dinged up at the bottom of the bag as it sat in a vault for 112 years.

So this coin has "no wear" on it?

Doesn't sound simple to me, Doug...

 

It's not. That's the whole point. You are trying to apply black-and-white rules to a place which is only gray.

 

All cats are grey in the dark.