Does anyone have any insight or experienced opinion in dealings with NTC? It seems to be a legit newbe in the grading game and I was not thrown by the rather conservative results in my initial submissions.( I sent a few de-slabed NCGS coins along with the raw to compare, 2 of 3 graded the same, 1 graded lower.) My concern lies more with the general distain for any new service, deserved or not. Their grading process seems structured to limit bias, they have been helpful and communicative with initial submission questions, and IMO they lean towards caution in an attempt to build a reputation as a serious service. That said, I've read some chat that suggests that the realm of credible grading belongs to a few, and in a business where reputation means everything, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the establishment isn't too keen on a competitively priced newcomer. On the other hand, I don't want to waste my resources on a unacknowledged or relatively disputable authority. Thanks for any informed response.
I think any new service faces an uphill but not insurmountable battle in gaining acceptance and credibility. The best way they can gain credibility is to be both consistent and in tune with market standards. Too many of the new services try to get submissions by offering low prices (too low to pay for the best graders and authenticators) and/or giving out inflated grades (compared to what the market accepts). Less than totally honest dealers and eBay sellers will hope to get an MS-68 from "Bob's Coin Grading Service" (BCGS) and hope to land the sucker who will pay MS-68 -- or even MS-66 -- money for the coin instead of sending it to a respected third-party grading service where it might come back, say, MS-64. You mostly see the hyper-graded fourth-tier slabs with modern coins, but they can be for any coin -- especially if they are "problem coins" that PCGS and NGC won't grade, and ANACS will net grade downward.
NTC has been around since early 2001. In that time that have not garnered much respect, if any, in the numismatic community. As a general rule - most consider them to be among the worst of the grading companies. But as I have said before, accurately graded and nice examples of a given coin can be found in the slab of any grading company. It's just that in some of them - you don't find them very often.
Ntc It would be interesting to see a blind third party grading of the graders, a grade-off at a numismatic convention. Has there been any of the principal services that have not gone through a period of controversy?
Well - what you have asked for has taken place - several times. The problem is - the grading of the graders is even more controversial than the graders are themselves It never cease to amaze me that collectors in general will clamor for something to happen or changes to take place - and when it does - they complain about the action taken more than they ever did about what the action was to change in the first place. I guess that's human nature - never be satisfied. True - the changes or action taken may not and usually doesn't solve all of the problems. But the way I look at it - any step in the right direction is an improvement. Change takes time - it never happens all at once. And people as a general rule fight against change and don't like to accept it - even when it improves things. But change is inevitable - and the best we can do is to always strive to make things better. To not give up trying and to try to accept the changes as they occur - even if it isn't fast enough for us. Nonetheless - here it is PNG Grading Survey - #1 PNG Grading Survey - #2 Coin World - editorial Coin World - article
From what I have seen, NTC coins tend to be moderately to horribly overgraded. However, in many instances, these coins may sell at or even below money at a "fair" grade, so if you look at the coin closely, and are confident in your grading abilities, you might have a worthwhile purchase. I stay away from them, though.
About 1980-1990, the Federal Trade Commission got a bee in their bonnet about numismatics as an investment. Among the firms that were prosecuted and settled were Heritage, PCGS, and Tulving. In fact, Heritage's predecessor, New England Rarities finally went down the tubes in a nasty court case after it was sold. I think that most collectors would regard those three as among the most reputable in the business today. Myself, I have more of a problem with an overzealous government than I do with an over-enthusiastic seller. All of that is to say that time will tell. ICG is an example of a firm that started out strong and grew from there. They are perhaps not generally perceived as a "top tier" firm with NGC and PCGS and tend to be labelled "second tier" with ANACS. Myself, I prefer to speak of the Big Four: ANACS, ICG, NGC and PCGS. One problem with "market grading" and the "market grading of market grading graders" is that it can only look at some numerical mode, rather than the whole market. In other words, we might say that Mint State Morgan Dollars and Lincoln Cents are the mainstream of US numismatics. But that "mainstream" is a small part of the whole. So, publicity by, for, and about dealers and collectors who trade those Morgans and Lincolns at a distance sight-unseen will skew everyone else's view of the numismatic markets. My interest is in other areas. Michael ANA R-162953
As I have heard before on this forum, buy the coin not the slab. I know if three identical coins are graded MS64 by NGC, PCGS and NTC, the NTC graded coin will garner the cheapest price. I personally have purchased several coins in NTC slabs and have sent a coin in (Mercury dime) and am pleased with the results.
NTC grades... MS(whatever grade) minus 2 to 4 points. AU(whatever grade) minus 3 to 5 points My experience with their early Lincolns (especially their version of "Reds") seem to grade out at AU50 to AU58 condition? Never seen worn MS Reds before in Lincolns, but this company sure has a bunch. Here is a NTC Lincoln example I was referring to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39456&item=3928457512&rd=1 Look at the flatness on the hair...this is more in AU 50 to 55 condition than MS64...or is it? But that's only my opinion
That Lincoln looks like a re-colored POC to me. I like to call these "third world" slabs, a term used a lot on some other forums.
Ntc Well i have been collecting for over 40 years....and i find errors with all the grading services..as for NTC...i took a 1940-s that they graded MS-67 and had it regraded by PCGS..and got the same grade back...but now its in a PCGS slab instead of a NTC..i am not saying NTC does not over grade ...but in some cases there are right on with there grades....coin grading services to me are just a group of guys that found a way...to get rich off collectors...by charging way to high prices to give a grade to a coin...and pump up the market....:crying:
Wow...this is an old thread. I have examined hundreds of coins in NTC holders, and I have never seen one that is even close to the proper grade. I'm not saying it's not possible that they graded a couple of coins correctly, but I've never seen one.
You really take a big risk when going with the unknown, In this case A new tpg, Same coin, Same grade you would get alot less for it When you go and sell it Vs PCGS or NGC
