Numismatic Education

Hi All,

I have become very frustrated with this particular section of the CoinTalk Boards. Here is why.

It has been awhile since I've checked out this board. I've been busy doing other things. I've been busy with my websites and busy on other coin forums.

When I came here for a visit (By the way, I've been a member here for years) , I noticed a lot of new names. That is good for the hobby.

What is bad for the hobby is a reluctance to accept information that is contrary to some of the things being posted. It is normal for people to believe that they have the next best variety or error coin to come down the pike and I understand that. The problem here is that in many instances the information being presented by some of the people here is dead wrong.

So, I did some checking.

Here's a little background that you should be aware of. There are several people here who were banned from another major coin board for being disruptive and for arguing with experts on the board anytime they didn't hear what they wanted to hear. Ladies and gentelman, they are here on this forum now.

Some of them have as a motivation, selling mislabeled items to you and others on eBay. Simply put, if they can get you to believe that they know what they are doing, they can sell you coins that have no numismatic value and you will think that they did you a service....that is until you someday try to sell the item yourself or show it to someone who really is knowledegable and they tell you you've been fleeced.

If these people are confronted with the truth, they vehemently argue against it. If the truth should get out, these people would be selling less numismatic nonsense and that would hurt their "business". In the past I actually had one of these guys email me and say that I was hurting his business and accused me of trying to ruin him. My question was how, by telling the truth?

I checked on one of these sellers and lo and behold, (No surprise to me) the very first coin he has for sale on eBay is incorrectly identified.

He lists a 1928 S Large Mintmark dime that is of course not identified correctly. I will place his picture below along with a picture of the "S" on a Scarce Large Mintmark piece. What he is trying to sell as one thing is, because of his lack of knowledge, something all together different.

Education is the key here. I am a numismatic educator and author but I am dedicated to looking at things from the perspective of a collector. I am an advocate for coin collectors and I can't stand people who are new to the hobby being misinformed by "expert" wanabees.

There are indeed several people here on these forums who DO know what they are doing and there are some that are really in the process of learning. It is unfortunate though that there is a noisy, argumentative against the truth, bunch of people here who are unfortunately clueless.

For the "Newbies" that read this far down.... don't take anything said in posts on a coin forum as gospel without researching the answers given to you thoroughly. That includes my answers. The best way to learn is to be familiar with who is trying to teach you and then try to check out everything yourself. The old business of "Buy the book before the coin" is some of the best advice you can get.

Since this is the ERROR forum, it is also important to note that not all dealers are well versed in the error/ die variety field so unfortunately, unless you see a "specialist" so to speak, you can still be misled.

Without telling you who the dealer was:

AND...Without telling him who I was, I showed him an example of a nice 1964 D DDO Kennedy half. They regularly trade for $75.00 or so. Now, I knew what I had....he looks at it and says. "There is no interest in those, and besides that it is not a doubled die, it's mechanical doubling. It's not worth anything but I'll give you 20 bucks for it"!

The point....even if the guy did know what he was doing which was implied by his 20 buck offer, he still gave misleading information saying that the coin was not a doubled die. His use of the term "mechanical doubling" was also incorrect...the term is machine doubling damage.

Again you have to be educated about what you are doing so that you don't ultimately get ripped off. When I teach and when I post things on forums like this, unless I say I am not sure....you can take what I say to the bank.

Newbies, you can't learn from the wanabees....When studying errors and die varieties You need to learn from people like Wexler, Potter, Diamond, Wiles, Flynn, Crawford, Daughtery, Fivaz, Stanton, Herbert, Leone, Bordner, Piazza, Neff, Wagnon, Snow and yeah, even that guy O'Rourke. There are others too, even in these forums but I can't think of them all at this point.

Be careful who you believe. No matter what area of life you are involved with, there will be those that think that if they make enough noise, people will believe them. Those are the ones to watch out for and THEY ARE HERE!!.

Now....

Here are the pictures promised:

The pictures are of different sizes so you must use the position of the mintmark as well as the serifs as diagnostics for the comparison.

Remember, this is listed incorrectly as a rare, large "S" variety. This is one of the "experts" that want you to believe them.

The first picture will show his coin which is a common small "S" variety. Note the distance from the leaves and note the lack of prominent serifs. These are the indications of the Small "S" variety.

Now, the second picture shows what the Large "S" looks like.
Note how close it is to the leaves and note the strong distinct serifs.

These were produced using different mintmark punches.

This is a basic mintmark variety and this guy doesn't have it right. What happens if someone buys this thing.

Thanks,
Bill

 

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Amen to all of that.

Uh Bill, even though I was banned from PCGS you're not talking about me right?

 

Conder...Heck no... You are one of the excellent people here and elsewhere!

Bill

 

Hey I have never been banned. lol

 

Excellent post Bill and thanks for bringing to light something that needed to be said.



sure would like to know who I am looking for though.. hint... hint.... I did a search on ebay for the merc and came up empty. I will continue my hunt.

 

I agree completely and I have added this seller to my do-not-buy-from list. Like Jim said - Thanks for saying something that really needed to be said.

Best Regards ~ Darryl

 

great words of wisdom!

since i've never been banned from anywhere I can assume I'm not included in that list.

richard

 

Hi Richard
I'm not divulging who. Those people know who they are.

Have Fun,
Bill

 

Excellent post! Very well thought out and said!

I think that if I take the advice given in your post -do some research, and educate myself- there'll be no need for me to worry about "who" is trying to sell a coin as something that it is not.

 

Question for Bill (foundinrolls). After reading all of the above I scampered off to pull out my two dime booklets. I think one of my 1928-S dimes is the large S variety!

Is there a substantial premium for the large S? Can I swap it for a 1916-D? (Mine is ANACS rated FR 02)

Thanks for an informative post. I printed it out.

I would like a ballpark figure on what a large S variety adds to the value of the coin though. Can you give me an idea please?

 

Bill
Excellent, well thought out and well written post.
(Actually, essay).

Thank you for taking the time for this.

:thumb:

Frank

 

Hi pjstack,

It is estimated that about 20% of all the 1928S production of these dimes had the large S.

It is not outrageously rare until you get into the higher grade pieces.

I can't get anymore specific until I get an idea of the grade on your 1928 S. Just let me know about the grade.

Thanks,
Bill

 

Thank you Bill.

I read it all. I appreciate it all.

It is nice to have you back on the forum. Your column has always been one of the first reads of each issue of COIN WORLD for me!

 

Bill (foundinrolls),

My 1928-S is probably no better than G-4 (I'm not a pro at grading!)

I finally looked it up in Coin Prices magazine and I see that in G-4 there is only about a 75 cent difference. It starts to make a big difference around AU-50!

Thanks for answering.

 

Hey that is still 75 cents more.

 

Hi Jake,
Thank You Very Much

Have a GREAT Thanksgiving,
Bill

 

Frank,

My pleasure and you are welcome.

Thanks,
Bill

 

pj,

You are also very welcome.

Thanks,
Bill

 

Nice speech sir! If I may I would like to recommend a fantastic book that has really fascinated,bedazzled,and downright left me coincrazed! This book is co-authored by Mr.Brian Allen and Sir Ken Potter.The book's title is Strike it Rich with Pocket Change.Thanks

 

Its a great book. it has a picture of my 1972 S DDO business strike in it