Not an everyday Trachy.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by BenSi, May 30, 2019.

  1. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I recently acquired this little gem. It is an Alexius Comnenus I post reform billion trachy. It is little underweight 23mm and 3.1 gm . SBCV -1917

    In Sear he gives it a above average value but in CLBC they give it a rarity of 5. {n his notes he says none have appeared at auction for a decade, I have not ever seen one offered. Nice good silver color. not great condition but I would grade it as a good Fine.
    p5.jpg
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    That’s a cool find, congrats. I like the reverse.
     
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  4. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I came home to three new coins, I quickly photographed them and posted the one above and went to bed.
    Here is my second acquisition to share, also and Alexius coin I got it from Roma and in hand its far more beautiful. It is a SBCV-1918 They description that had about condition did not match the pic but I went for it anyway. The truth is this coin is far more beautiful than either Roma or my photography shows. The Grade they gave it " Near Extremely Fine; toned and lustrous."

    I loved my wife's reaction when she saw it. An impressive Wow, like she had just viewed a precious stone ( Her hobby.)
    q3.jpg

    Sadly I doubt if my picture can get the same reaction, the coin btw is an easily found billion coin of Alexius, this one is very rich in silver and seemed to have seen little circulation.

    I will have to do some more reading on CT about coin photography to see how I can improve the shot. It has a glow to it in real life.
     
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Nice coin and of the well-known (relatively speaking) emperor Alexius Comnenus. He wrote a letter to pope Urban asking for military help against the Saracens. The first Crusader group led by Peter the Hermit was an unarmed mob that was cut down by the Seljuk Turks in Anatolia. The second group led by Godfrey of Buillion was more successful as it was largely mounted knights and foot soldiers. Their big problem was a lack of supplies.

    Alexius shrewdly cut a deal with the Crusader leadership to make them swear oaths of fealty to the Byzantine emperor in exchange for food and supplies that would get them to the Holy Land. Whatever territories and cities they conquered would be under the suzerainty of Constantinople. The Crusade was a success in that the Crusaders put Jerusalem to the siege and eventually the city fell. They killed too many people - particularly Jews and Muslims and ransacked the City.

    These events are recorded in the Alexiad by Anna Comnena and also by western clergymen. The bad feeling and mutual mistrust between the Byzantines and Crusaders came to head during the next few Crusades during the time of Manuel Comnenus. Hence we get the word "Byzantine" in the West meaning "complicated" and involving a great amount of administrative detail with a strong negative connotation.
     
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  6. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Dear BenSi, I feel I should know this, but to what does CLBC refer? Thanks in advance.
     
  7. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I am sorry , I should have written it out, it is an obscure catalog that focuses on the 12th and 13th century of Byzantine coins.

    Catalogue of Late Byzantine Coins, Volume I

    http://orthodoxcoins.com/books/catalogue-of-late-byzantine-coins-vol1/

    The main author Val passed away a few years back so no volume two. The book is really good for the line drawings and the authors seemed to have used Coin Archives to judge rarity. Basically how often the coin had hit the market. This same technique is used in the art market for graphic works for Durer and Rembrandt. Unfortunately they skipped some previously proved knowledge about the coins making the text somewhat useless. However the drawings alone make the work worth the price.
     
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  8. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Great coin, I hardly ever see those and don't have one. Of course, I'm a cheep skate. I have a quite beautiful Bulgarian imitative trachy I need to photo. I think I'll do that today.

    Just received a copy of CLBC in the mail last week and wrote to Val's son Svilen. I told him I really value the work his father did and asked what Vol II would cover. He let me know Val, his father had passed away so the project for II is not possible now, really too bad for his loss as well as ours.

    Shipping and everything else went off smoothly to say the least. I recommend the book to anyone interested in schyphates. The line drawings are perfect examples.
    It is necessary that one have looked at a lot to understand the function of the line drawings. It's a fill in the blacks process; very few look like the drawings.

    I find that a passion for the subject is mandatory. I found myself going from CLBC to Henden, to DOC and leaving all three open while re-examining some of my own
    that I hadn't been able to decipher as to issuer. The combination of all three did help a lot.

    One other book is also quite helpful which is Late Byzantine Coins 1204-1453 In The Ashmolean Museum University of Oxford by Eleni Lianta published by Spink in 2009.

    Now I need to get busy with the camera.
     
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  9. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Of course! Yes, now I recognize it. The library where I work owns it. I just didn't recognize the abbreviation. Thank you!
     
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  10. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Here is a Bulgarian imitation that I posted on another thread. I have had it since 2014 but couldn't attribute is. CLBC helped me, Hendy had it, but I couldn't see it. Must have been situational numismatic blindness. Losely copied from an Isaac Comn. trachy. Finally got it photoed.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I would be interested to hear more about the mistakes... are the IDs (reigns, mints, time periods) correct at least?
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I'm late to post here but I'd try an LED ringlight. Sometimes they work alone but sometimes they can augment another directional light. They ruin as many photos as they help. This photo is old (I have added a diffuser since).
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    The line drawings are great, they have a couple of small mistakes in their renderings, since I collect and specialize in tetartera I can mention on what I have found.

    He disputes the silver content on Constantinople tetartera issues but without reason, Meltcalf was the first to prove it in the 1960;s and Hendy reproved it with new tests in the 90's, he does not acknowledge this at all and tells the reader this was for ceremonial use only. he dismisses what was scientifically proven. They were in fact a different denomination than the Thessalonica issues.

    Die sizes, he makes the claim that 1000's of coins were tested, for dies sizes, I loved the theory but again if he had tested 1000;s of coins he would have noted that some of the coins had listed had three die sizes and not two. Perfect example of this is the Andronicus half tetartera he has at 15mm die size , I have several and the they have die sizes of 12mm, their is a 15mm but he missed their were actually three sizes 18mm, 15mm and 12mm. this is also true for coins of Manuel and Isaac II. His theory was very interesting and I would not have realized the three die sizes if not for his catalog but he truly did not test enough coins to prove this otherwise he would have been first to catch this. I also remember him emailing me for the die sizes on coins in my collection , if I replied to late he would say he already had it. ( Other collectors I respect say the die sizes for trachea in the book are not much help.)

    The rarity values are very off on the tetartera, the really rare ones were correct ( Basically a 5 was only one known.)but certain coins I had only seen 2 or 3 of in my collecting and he would give it as a rarity of 2 when in fact they proved to be much rarer. I think the rarity level was an interesting idea to add but I am certain they are misleading and not researched.

    His sizes and weights are interesting but he gives no source on where he found these. I think coin archives.

    Michael Hendy basically wrote the blueprints for post reform coinage of Alexius , Val is very critical in the text about some of his findings. That's okay but don't just say it, prove it.

    I knew Val, he at once asked me to participate in his project but I could not because of a new job, I also think he rushed the publication because of his illness, he passed from cancer a few years back. He had a good knowledge of the coins but could be very stubborn if you disagreed with him regardless of the proof you had to dispute them.

    I still think this is a great book for all of the visuals he included. I in fact have two copies, one I bought from his son that I have never opened , I am keeping it as a backup in case my original copy gets destroyed from overuse.

    I recommend it for anyone interested in the time period but now DOC series is free online, CLBC should be used as a supplement simply for the excellent drawings.
     
  14. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I will try this Doug, btw I have learned a lot from your articles especially on photography through the years. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
     
  15. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Great review, the book is useful and easy to use. Regarding DOC. it is fantastic that it's on line to have something much more for folks to use than Sear for research. I have all volumes of DOC and it's easier to grab; my working Byzantine library is right behind my desk three feet and a roll of my chair.

    I too was wondering how he arrived at the rarity figures. The more info out there, the more fun the field is. However, like you, nothing takes the place of knowing what one has seen over the decades is the best guide to scarcity.

    How about this "former" schyphate? Someone, only God knows when, decided to flatten it out. Kinda crazy.

    TheoComDucDOp464_8.1x copy.jpg
     
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  16. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Thanks for that excellent review, @BenSi!
     
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  17. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I love that coin. Very nice.flattened or not.
     
  18. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I have one of those too! John Comnenus-Ducas of Thessalonica (1237-42):
    Screen Shot 2019-06-06 at 12.39.00 PM.jpg
     
  19. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Wow, nice one. Must have been a numis-plague outbreak.
     
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