Nomination for worst PF68 ever slabbed...

Would you believe this coin resides inside a PCGS PF68 holder? I'm not sure how to set-up those little grade survey things, maybe someone can reply with a survey on the grade. I'll start it off with voting for a PF61 designation.

 

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Looks like one of the three musketeers got him in the beard!
I'll go with PR-61 as well. Very ugly eye appeal and I have no understanding how it is a PR-68

 

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but pf-65+.
1. It's gold.
2. It's 100+ years old.
By the second point alone I'd say it merits a high grade because it was probably coined on a screw press & the technology wasn't available to mint it to modern grading standards.
Or I'm just talking out of my shoe.

 

There is a US wreath cent, dated 1793, not even proof, that grades MS69. The technology is not the limiting factor. I have seen some "bad days" at the TPG, but calling that coin a 68 must simply be drunk off his rear or physically swapping coins between the grader and slabber.

 

Point 3. The picture on my phone is about actual size, so the only thing I see is some haze. I still say 65. I've seen some pf-65 state quarters that appear to have been dragged by a truck.
Point 4. My it may have been submitted within a large group by northeast (who no doubt send 100's of coins per month)& was the last one in the pile, or the last grade of the day.

 

It's a restrike according to Northeast, which means it was probably struck not 100 years ago, but probably about the time Get Smart was talking into his shoe in the 1960s.

 

It is possible from the large photos, that the "sword" shaped difference is not due to a removal of the haze, but maybe the original surface of the coin, and the haze developed later, not in that area. If it was a scrape, it would have affected the frosty raised area of the beard.

Jim

 

Very true. However, given the deficient surface, and the multiple marks in the fields, I still cannot see a 68. Heck, ignore the "sword" altogether, I cannot see a 68.

 

I can't tell the surface due to the hazing. I don't see any affecting marks on the devices with frost, and the fields may have been similar when graded. Maybe the coin was issued in a PVC type of holder originally, taken out, graded, and then the haze appeared. What is the cert #, maybe we can see a photo as graded.

 

Once again as i have said before TPG have tendency to give good grades to coin submitted by dealers. As with most world gold coins 68+ would have much higher markup and anything below it will be spot price.

 

Cool looking shield on the reverse. We have an 1918 goldpiece in the shop and my boss wants to scrap it. "I said are you crazy? We aren't scrapping that. It's a display piece." What a waste of history that would have been.

 

I don't think there is any evidence that TPGs give higher grades to dealers. If that was the case, it would completely ruin their credibility.

As for the coin, it could simply be ugly toning like we see with many other coins. Those "marks" might just be the lesser areas of blotchy ugly toning.

 

You don't believe any TPG would have incentive to grade *better* for a dealer than an individual, lower/inaccurate grades would mean they have risk of losing their business. From what i hearing ratio for 70 to 68 that bay dealers seem to have in their inventory is higher than what most people get when they submit some of the recent bullion issues for grading.

 

I don't believe it for a second. These companies must maintain a high integrity to continue to make money. I would imagine that most dealers don't have them slab coins that grade below a certain number which explains why they have so many slabbed with those grades. The lower coins simply aren't slabbed. Also, dealers are experts and know what coins to submit and what not to submit. Just because they are doing a bulk submission does not mean that are submitting blindly.

 

I vote shoe. Screw press indeed! Harrumph!

 

,,..and then at the other extreme, check this one out...

Then at the other extreme, check this one out. MS64?? They've got to be kidding!! At least an MS66, maybe even MS67.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3354080-006

Actually, the grade on this coin is very reassuring for reasons I will explain.

One of the nice things about NGC graded coins, is that you can check their photos online, at least for coins in the newer holders. If you see a coin advertised by a dealer or on eBay, and the grade doesn't seem to match the coin, its a great resource to be able to see NGC's photos of the coin as well. This is especially true of coins that have been undergraded by NGC.

Since the numeric code on NGC slabs correspond to the submission form used when the coins were sent in, it is possible to view all the other coins that were sent in for a single submission to see what kind of mood the grader was in that day. As anyone who has sent coins in for grading can attest, the grading is somewhat consistent across all the coins in a specific submission. This seems to be especially true of NGC, though my own experience suggests its true of PCGS as well.

What happens is that nearly all the coins in a submission come back graded within a narrow band of grades, especially in mint state. Either all the coins are somewhat liberally graded, or all the coins are somewhat conservatively graded. Sometimes they get it right, and every single coin is graded as I would expect. By way of example, have a look at the other 7 coins that were submitted with this coin.

The one in particular I was interested in was coin 002 which is an 1874 Norway 20 Kronor in MS62. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why the low grade since it has fewer marks than some in MS65 holders. Seeing these other coins in the same submission that were also undergraded lead me to conclude the MS62 was probably low by a point, just based on the grade of the others that were low as well.

If you're one of those collectors who doesn't need a grading service to tell you what condition a coin is in, and who is interested in slabbed coins mainly for authenticity and marketability reasons, then using their photo archive can be a very rewarding tool indeed!

 

Shhhh! I had all them other fellers fooled.

 

So a coin with nearly flawless surfaces, but some light haze should grade only PR61? Haze should only knock 1-2 points off a grade max.

 

When, in addition to heavy fog, there is also what appears to be a shish-ka-bob skewer going through the guy's beard; why then yes, a PF61 indeed. That is, if the coin belongs in a slab at all. The void in the fog might just as easily be described as an altered surface which at one time would have kept the coin out of a slab altogether. Have a look at another example, graded PF65. Easily a 4 point better coin(!)

 

why is it that american collectors are so hung up on slabs and grades? what i see is a nice 100 years old bulgarian gold coin which would look nice in any collection, but no we have two pages of arguing about the perceived grade and why some disagree with it. rather than become so anal about the grade and why it has been slabbed, just appreciate a nice coin for what it is.............a nice coin.