I thought i finally pulled one off...for a few days. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1802-Large-...63&clkid=3783288761509540535&autorefresh=true I thought everyone else would overlook the significance of this lower grade common coin, even if the die state rarity was plainly stated. But it wasn't to be. My $50 bid was almost double the second bidder right up until the last minutes of bidding. Then it exceeded my last minute topper of $120 by $30. Why the interest for such an ugly common coin? This may be only the second coin in this Rare Die State. I'm only aware of the Wright-Holmes specimen in roughly the same shape. The die state rarity was of sufficient merit to Holmes that he included it in his collection. It sold for $600, but provenance probably accounted for a fair bit of that. It does pose a question. If you have something of great rarity and only a small handful of people desire that particular rarity, does it actually have higher value?
It's the law of supply and demand. It always has been and always will be. You could have a coin that is a known one-of-a-kind, but if no one is interested, it isn't worth too much. Chris
As my father always used to say Marshall, a coin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it not what a book tells us it's worth. If there are only a handful of people interested in any particular coin then you have a small "audience" to play to. If someone has a great enough desire for it...and the money...it would raise the value considerably. If your potential buyers are small players then you won't realize a good return. I run into that all the time when bidding on counterstamps. It's a thin market, but there are some collectors who have money and are willing to spend it. I always have to compete with that. Bruce
The underlined and bold sentence in your comments are where we disagree. It simply isn't true. In the first place, just because there is one person who is willing to pay $x.xx amount for a given coin; that does not mean that there is anyone else who is willing to pay that much for that coin. And if there isn't, then that coin is not worth that much and never was. It simply means that somebody over-paid for the the coin. Secondly, you do not know that the reason the buyer paid that much was because of his desire for the coin. Yes, that is one possible reason. But it is also possible that the buyer was an idiot and simply over-paid. THIS happens very, very often. The value of a coin, any coin, is established by what numerous people are willing to pay for it - not just 1 person. If a given coin commonly sells for a given amount (or within a given range), then THAT is the value of the coin. And the buyers need to be educated buyers, not bid-idiots on ebay. As further example to illustrate my point consider this. By your reasoning if a fake coin, or even a problem coin, sells for $800 on ebay - that coin is worth $800. But we both know that coin is not worth $800, it's only worth a fraction of that because it is a fake, or because it is a problem coin. No educated buyer would pay $800 for that coin. But a bid-idiot on ebay, or an uneducated buyer did. See what I mean ?
People paid absurd amounts for gold & silver in 1980, but that doesn't mean that was the actual value (see 1981).
While I understand what you mean, Doug, I have to disagree. Otherwise great rarities, such as the 33 double eagle and the 1804 dollars would be worth fractions of what are because in reality it's been one or two people who have bid their prices up, not a community of collectors. Most, if not all of the six figure coins have changed hands withing a tiny elite community of just a few dozen collectors over the years. Thats hardly a barometer of the community as a whole in determining overall value of a coin. As for Marshall's experience, who's to say had he been in a room with other bidders, or even the one bidder who won, with a live auction where sneaky last second bids are impossible, that the two of them wouldn't have driven the price many multiples it's current sale price? Thats one reason Ebay is not a good place to get auction prices, because the variables are just not realistic. Guy
Interesting question - I can see in some cases it would and it some cases it would not. Sorry you did not win the coin.
you are absolutely right. A particular coin in question makes all the difference. There are some rare low mintage coins that just don't command "rare" type of money. A lot of early US gold coins fit in this class. I picked up a really low mintage quarter eagle for a common year price a year ago.
There are exceptions Guy, like the coins you speak of. But those exceptions do not mean that what I said is not true. It merely means they are exceptions. With the vast majority, and by that I mean like 99% of all the coins sold - what I said is perfectly true.
Perhaps we can agree that price doesn't always represent value. Price is related to a single transaction while value would reflect some sort of typical price after some number of transactions, depending on a reasonable number of transactions over a reasonable amount of time.
Well, however got this 1797 Stemless Wreath (S-143 I think?, R-5) possibly didn't quite get a bargain, but got to for at least a very reasonable price. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1797-LARGE-..._Individual&hash=item1c2015878f#ht_500wt_1215 Difficult to tell much about condition from the pictures, but it seems to be F-12 with a reasonable planchet. If so, it is at the low end of the CC for the variety. I would have bid in it myself ( if I had spotted it on time.....).
Sorry about that! I usually give out a tip on these, but decided to bid on this one myself. I was left far in the dust by the snipers. I couldn't tell from the pictures whether it would make F or stay around VG.
Here is the closest comparison I have found: http://www.icollector.com/1798-S-149-R5-Style-I-Hair-with-Large-8-AG3_i8599293 Both are 1798s, though this one is R5+ rather than just R5. I beg to differ with the starting details grade though. Complete bust folds make this and my S-147 more like XF40 net AG3.
Sorry you didn't get it, Marshall. Difficult to say more on grade from the pictures provided, but I think whoever got it, took a gamble, and got himself a solid F12. Nice variety too.
Those with eagle eyes AND MONEY seem to be on their guard lately. Even a quartered S-121 along with a holed S-275 went for $51. That is almost AG money for junk. Of coarse, it's junk I like too.
Removing idiot bids and outliers, ebay is by far the best place to guage the value of a ~common coin imo. Special one off rare coins, and those that command 5 figures, or high 4 figures are better suited to corporate auction houses in order to value them and guage thier value. Ultimately you have to look at the seller and coin.,, If john doe has 20 common date morgan dollars in MS62-64 where do you think he is most likey to sell them ? I'm unsure if HC would even accept them in one of thier auctions.. my guess is that his best selling outlet would be the 'bay, and the best place to value the coin would be from the place he plans to sell it,, ie-the 'bay. ... You should value your coins within the venue in which you plan to sell them. Now it wouldn't hurt to check HC values for a MS62 1885 morgan dollar before opting for the venue, but my guess is that the 'bay would offer the best venue for such a sale.... and it's these types of sales that make up the vast majority of coin sales, thus the vast majority of coin values are probably best guaged on the 'bay (again, person valuing a coin on the 'bay, or even HC etc.. should always remove outliers, as poor overly agressive bidding exists in both venues).
