Newp: Picked me up one of them camel denarii

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by red_spork, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    myimage.JPG

    This denarius was minted in 58 BC under the moneyers M. Aemilius Scaurus and P. Plautius Hypsaeus. Its obverse commemorates the surrender of the Nabataean King Aretas III to Pompey's general M. Aemilius Scaurus in 62 BC. The reverse commemorates a much older event, the capture of Privernum in 329 BC by the second moneyer's ancestor, Gaius Plautius Decianus(The moneyer lists HVPSAEVS but Crawford suggests that this is actually an error made by the moneyer).

    Those familiar with the Republican silver series might wonder why I would by a lower grade example of a relatively common coin. This is actually not nearly as common as you may think. In 58 BC, there were two similar types minted, which Crawford catalogued as 422/1a and 1b. Type 1b differs in that it has a scorpion under the horses on the reverse and slightly different legends, however it is much more common with an estimated 336 obverse and 373 reverse dies, versus this type's 20 obverse and 22 reverse. I am still on the hunt for a nice example of the more common type and plan to get one in much better condition if I can find one, though they were rarely well-centered or evenly struck, so it may be a while.

    Roman Republic AR denarius(18.5mm, 3.89g). M. Aemilius Scaurus & P. Plautius Hypsaeus, 58 BC, Rome mint. Camel right; before, kneeling figure, holding reins in left hand and olive-branch tied with fillet in right hand; above, M SCAVR; on either side, EX SC; below, AED CVR. Border of dots / Jupiter in quadriga left, holding reins in left hand and hurling thunderbolt with right hand; above, P HVPSAEVS; AED CVR. Below, C HVPSAE COS; PREIVER. On right, CAPTVM upward. Border of dots. Crawford 422/1a. Aemilia 9. Sydenham 912

    Post your Roman camels!
     
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  3. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I've always had a fondness for this wonderful type, and you got a rare variant! It doesn't get much better than that.
     
  4. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Great addition red_spork ... it has a few very cool test-cuts, or banker's marks on the obverse (I love the history behind those types of marks)

    Apparently I only have the more common variety, but I'm still lovin' this sweetie and its lil' scorpion ...


    M Aemilius ax.jpg M Aemilius bx.jpg

    => again r_spork, that's a super new addition (congrats)
     
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Nice pickup. I just showed my budget example in another thread, so I'll refrain from posting it once again here.
     
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  6. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Sweet camel pickup RSpork. ;)
     
  7. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Definitely a choice coin. As mentioned in another thread, if you want good centering on these types, you have to live with some clipped legends, but I much prefer that to clipped devices, especially when the camel's head is missing. There was just too much die for these flans.
     
  8. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    That is a great looking camel. Nice acquisition.
     
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    IMO this is a pretty good example for its stated purpose. The important difference is the AED CVR being in exergue instead of being up under the Scaurus. It is nice to have at least most of that difference on flan. It is not hard to tell the two types apart because of the scorpion and relocated AED CVR being in places that usually are on flan but the having two types makes me prefer coins showing either REX ARETAS or AED CVR clearly. While yours is short the initial A, mine is missing the entire REX which I consider a major problem with the coin - certainly worse than being the 'common' type. This is a case where the common coin seems a great improvement over the rare model. Naming the king is what makes the coin unusual and worth having in the first place. No one will convince me that the lack of a scorpion is better than having a scorpion (and I am not the animal collector in residence here). If the distribution of these two were reversed, I would expect the named/scorpion version to sell for several times the price of the coin with missing details. As it is, rarity restores demand so the two probably will sell for about the same price all other things being equal. I wish you well in finding that full legend, full camel coin of the common type.
    ra7120bb2298.jpg
    Nice, cheap, quick. You can have two and only two.
     
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  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Who would like to explain the grammar involved in changing the rare CAPTVM to the common CAPTV? It is not a matter of having space for the letter.
     
  11. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    If you're a variety collector, you can have more than two. I believe there are 5 or 6 minor varieties than consist of differences as to how the inscriptions are placed. But I'm sure you already know that.

    I'll leave that in your most capable hands, but do tell if no one else answers. Enquiring minds want to know. :)
     
  12. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Trajan (98-117 AD), AR 19, 3.33 grams. Struck c. 113-114 at Bostra, Arabia (southernmost Syria, very near Jordan).
    Trajancamel.jpg
    Greek legend (below).
    Sear Greek Imperial --. SNG ANS VI 158. SNG von Aulock III 6408. William Metcalf "Tell Kalak Hoard" ANSMN 20 (1975) page 88, plate XIV.18.

    This one has a (Bactrian) two-humped camel and not the one-humped (dromedary) camel we now associate with the region.

    AVTOKP KAIC NEP TRAIAN APICTW CEB ΓERM ΔAK
    Autokrater Kaiser Nerva Trajan Optimo Augustus Gemanicus Dacicus
    Imperator Caesar

    ΔHMAPX EΞ YΠATOC
    Tribunicia Potestas Consul
     
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  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I have one of the type Warren posted, but the style is different. If you look at Bostran coinage overall, you'll notice that some of the engravers were well-versed in the High Roman style (Warren's coin), others less so (mine). Also, I keep meaning to clean this coin up a bit on the obverse, but never seem to get around to it...

    trajancamel500.jpg
     
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  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    dougsmit said:
    Nice, cheap, quick. You can have two and only two.
    Variety collectors rarely do 'quick' as much as 'constant'. We always watch for a variety but never expect to find any particular item on any given day/year/decade. Something like 12 Caesars can be collected quickly if you are willing to pay big money or if you accept lesser coins. Finding EF gems of all 12 in a short time at discount prices would be something of a miracle. Most of what specialists collect are not offered in any condition or at any price at any given moment. We feel lucky when we see one we want and luckier if the seller does not value it highly. The question is what to do when you see what you want in low grade or at a ridiculous price (or both).

    There are people whose focus is coins being sold for less than they are worth. They are called resellers. Would you buy a coin you don't want if you knew you could sell it immediately for twice the price? Most would occasionally but vest pocket dealers make a living this way - or try.
     
  15. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    How anyone would make a living being a vest pocket dealer is beyond me. I'd have to downsize to a cardboard box on skid row and eat roadkill. Vest pocket dealers are just hobbyists, no more, no less.
     
  16. Volodya

    Volodya Junior Member

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