New Recently Discovered Coin Type

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ancientnoob, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    This specimen is one of the most enigmatic I have ever come across and what I might consider one my new favorites and represents all that is interesting about ancient coins.
    [​IMG]
    Thanks to wikipedia for the simple map...

    This specimen although new and excavated

    by T.R Hardaker himself the dating and attribution of the coin is hotly debated. The punches are largely understudied and there has yet to be a definitive work cataloging the type. My internet searches and correspondence with fellow collectors and experts in India has yielded a variety of different views and attributions, none of them are definitive and some are quite unsupported.
    These coins all appear to be from a single hoard and a few single finds further confusing and certainly adding to the possibilities of issuing authorities.

    I will share what I have gathered from all this information noise and try to present it to you all in a palatable manner.

    Dating I have heard this could be one of the first coins in all of the world...with the earliest date being about BC 650-600. Some give it a date of BC 600 - 500 and some as late as BC 300. Again everything is up in the air as of today. The extreme early date is appealing but lets look at some of the evidence. The prevailing attribution is that the coin is attributed to one of the very ancient states the Janapada of Matsya, and given a date of BC 600. To put it in perspective in the time of the Buddha ( BC 560-480(?)), the Janapada of Matsya was in severe decline and had almost been completely subjugated by the Janapada of Magadha. Matsya is also geographically quite distant from where these specimens are known to be found. With this understanding the date has to be earlier than the Karshapana of Magadha. The problem with this is that they are found far from the ancient borders of Matsya.

    All the coins are all of similar fabric suggesting a short emission with no progenitive types or smaller denominations. The coins are also not as crude as the Karshapana of the earlier periods. Having a few large well spaced counter marks on a planchet that was clipped to size.

    To illustrate this I will show you a picture of the Series I Karshapana of Magadha.

    KarshapanaC.jpg

    Instead the coin shows a high level of skill in the minting process where all the coins are made to size and then struck. The coins are either square or round but with no evidence of clipping or otherwise shaping of the coin. This feature might suggest a later date of BC 300.

    Stylistically the coin is probably closest to the coins of Janapada of Panchala, of which I do not own an example, but this would support a date BC 600-500. As Panchala was a strong state at this time and there is some minor similarities with the punches. Yet under close examination the punches are far more complex than any of the other PMC in all the world.

    I made an overlay of the symbols on my specimen and then had them checked with an Indian expert and he confirms the overlay is perfect and very accurate, so I feel I can confidently show it here. @THCoins has done some scholarly type work with similar coins with different punches, I hope he decides to share that info with us here.

    MatsyakarshapanaOBVoverlay.jpg

    The coin denomination is called a Vimsataika. A silver coin heavier than the Karshapana we have become so familiar with and is considered its predecessor.

    India, Uttar Pradesh
    Unknown Janapada Varanasi-Jaunpur Region (Matsya(?))
    AR Vimsatika (BC 650-300(?))
    24 mm x 21 mm x 4.42 grams
    Obverse: 2 Large Punches - (Red), 4 smaller punches (Blue and Green) and 2 additional Bankers marks(?) (Yellow)
    Reverse: Blank as struck.
    Reference: None. Uncatalogued.

    Matsyakarshapana_opt.jpg

    I would also like to take a second to thank, for providing scholarly work and a unique approach to understanding these coins. You guys Rock!!!! It is a real honor to be apart of this very small club.

    Raghunadha Raju

    Mitresh Singh

    THCoins

    Dr. Alex Fishman
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
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  3. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    For the viewers unaware of the previous discussion on WoC:
    The punchmarks on these coins look very complex and chaotic. However, they may be derived from a few basic design principles. Simple geometric shapes which are repeated in a rotational symmetry may be used to fill surfaces with a seemingly complex pattern:
    TileShapesSmall.jpg
     
  4. Davobenz

    Davobenz Member

    Ancientnoob: Thanks for the info. I still have lots to learn in this area of ancient Indian numismatics. Always nice to find new knowledge, despite the fact that I do have a few karshapanae.
     
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  5. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Thanks Davobenz. Please share your Karshapana.
     
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Wow, fantastic. I am fascinated 1) the origin of coinage may not be where it has always been assumed, 2) these are gorgeous designs, and I would love to learn their significance, 3) amazed by a whole realm of history and ancient coinage that I would like to explore...but intelligently... Thanks @Ancientnoob . I want more...
     
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  7. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Great and interesting thread and super coin. Congrats.
     
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  8. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer


    A most lovely avatar @Davobenz
     
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  9. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Excellent write up!!
     
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  10. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Thanks Goh.
     
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  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Anoob: Surely that's not little noob in your avatar?
     
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  12. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Maybe big Noob :)
     
  13. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    No just an avatar that I found quite hilarious.
     
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  14. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Very interesting coin to say the least.
    This article should have been featured simply because the amount of effort Anoob put into it.
    I have no "eastern" coins to show off (Siliqua for life yo :cool:) but congrats on a cool coin!
     
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  15. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Tell that to powers that be. I take it as a wonderful compliment MagMax. Thanks.
     
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