Hi all, I’m trying to get a second opinion on this elephant denarius I recently purchased. It’s a bit difficult to match the die on this. But, there are so many different die types and poorly struck examples that I feel it’s generally difficult to match. My hunch is it’s real because of the flow marks. However, I having more trouble being able to tell if it has been altered or damaged and cleaned to make it look better. The cap in particular I’m not sure if that is how the cap was engraved or if there are cleaning marks scraping the cap clean. I have seen a few dies matching the way hat is engraved. I’ve also seen different facial features on the elephant matching this odd looking head on other dies. But not all features match on a single set of dies. Btw the weight comes in at 3.71 grams. I paid $750 which should be a good deal if it’s not heavily manipulated or fake. I could really use some professional help on this one. Please, let me know what you think. Here’s the coins below: thanks, Larry
You will be surprised then at how many fakes are struck and can potentially have flow marks. A good rule of thumb is also not to buy a coin and then question its authenticity. An old say--"know the coin or know the dealer." FORVM has a fake coins database where you can look for known fakes https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/ and Forgery Network https://www.forgerynetwork.com/default.aspx
A few more pics. In the one above I see what I think are flow marks or remnants of flow marks. The coin has lots of scratches and cleaning marks which makes me think it once had a lot of gunk on it. A lot of the flow marks I think would have worn off. These dots avice are a bit concerning not sure what would have caused that aside from bubbling from ( a forgery ) casting. But, I gues it could just as well be damage. the pits around the rim at the bottom seem to be more corrosion than cast bubbling.
I don't think you can get professional help on a coin forum. Not really possible to authenticate a coin based on photos, although it is possible to condemn it as a fake. My two cents on this coin. Style and weight are both correct. The elephant looks more like a pig but it's a known variant. Having said that, this is a VERY popular type and there's lots of potential profit for counterfeiters. I would never buy such a coin from unknown sellers. Can't help you more, sorry.
I think that's an excellent price & and a JC elephant denarius in that grade would bring at least 2x that were it on a major numismatic site. The question is, why was it sold so cheaply?
The tones look right, coming from a photo. I happened to stop in and respond, I look to other experts on here to call out any mistake in assessment.
I've been dealing with the aftermath of the two hurricanes in Florida. I haven't had the time or inclination to comment (we made it ok with some minor damage, but a lot of cleanups). The coin looks perfectly fine to me, but if you have questions, send it back (if possible). Very popular coins for even non collectors, so there is money to be made from counterfeiting. I own an example from my early days of collecting, but I believe it to be fake even in the terrible condition of the coin.
Thanks for the reply, Bing! I hope and pray you guys get back on your feet quickly! Hopefully no coins (or humans) were damaged in your area. Your vote of confidence makes me feel better about the purchase. Might send it in to NGC to get a definitive answer. When I saw the price I jumped on it. But, afterward had some concerns. Sometimes it’s hard to do research without having extensive time observing and researching the coin.
The toning looks correct for silver (although the counterfeiters could very much be casting in silver) The type looks correct, the slight deposits on the raised surface detail areas look correct too. I would have to say that this coin appears to be correct from the photos. And at $750, this Denarius is a steal, the detail on the elephant looks amazing, there was probably die wear when the Reverse was struct or it would just be normal wear on the coin but it doesn't look bad either. What is the diameter of this coin? Does it match around the typical diameters of this type in other examples online? Casted coins will usually have a casting seam which the counterfeiter will file off or grind it to remove the outer casting seams. You can also try to use a magnifying glass or loupe to inspect the details of this coin further to be sure. Look at how the details on the coin pop out of the surface, if it looks too smooth or sharp then it's casted.
