New Domitian

Came in the mail yesterday. It has a nice portrait and patina. Allot of the legend is gone but I think the attribution it correct.

Domitian AE As. 85 AD. IIMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XI CENS PER PP, laureate bust right, wearing aegis / SALVTI AVGVSTI above and below facade of the altar-enclosure of the Ara Salutis Augusti with detailed double-paneled door & horns above, S-C across fields.

C. 419, RIC 304b, RIC 2 418 ?

 

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Very cool, you had gotten a good deal on this one

 

I admit I like worn bronzes like this a lot. I always thought what it would be like to have brand new ones, and I seriously do not think I would prefer bright shiny ones to coins like this with beautiful even toning that adds to its historical "heft".

Nice pickup!

Chris

 

I agree, not that I wouldnt like a nice and shiny new ancient, its like a stronger connection to the past. I feel the same about US coins too for the most part. Thats why I got this on of Commodus
I think I paid like 4-6 bucks for it. Its not great looking bout its almost worn smooth (looks rough n the pic though)

 

It looks Roman

If it were brand new & it were possible to read the complete legend, then I would probably still struggle with attributing the coin.

 

I like the nice smooth Domitian but am not a fan of the rough Commodus. I have plenty of rough coins but really prefer wear to corrosion. I am reminded of my most worn Claudius which can be identified to the reverse if you know the series. I liberated it from a junk bin because of its surfaces and patina. Perhaps VG/Fair???

 

I am with you Doug. My Ostrogothic coin is smooth VG with a nice patina, which I much prefer over the few F/VF's with corrosion I have seen. Nothing at all wrong with good honest wear.

Chris

 

The picture makes it look more rough than it actually is. Aside from the obvious pitting, its pretty smooth.

 

Heres another one with "honest wear," or at least I hope so. I wonder which of my coins may have been lightly smoothed.

 

Heres one I think may have been smoothed, but IDK. It was only $3 though.

 

Smoothing is usually done in the fields. I would say both of yours are just worn, with some damage to the second one, (scratches). Tooling is the more dangerous action. I can overlook some smoothing, (adjusting the price), but tooling to me makes it an altered coin.

 

Some smoothing just looks awful. Havent seen to o many tooled coins for sale, except in a certain catalog. Someone takes $40 dollar coins turns it into $4 coin and sells it for $400. -_-

 

The best tooling you would never spot from a photo. I am not good at seeing it even in hand. This is why I would never buy a high priced large early bronze except through a good dealer.

Smoothing I am hit or miss on. Theoretically I am against it all, but if done well can make a pleasant coin, and I am willing to overlook it, (though I shouldn't since if we all banded together and stopped buying them maybe they would stop smoothing.....wishful thinking).

Chris

 

This Galba is what I consider 'dishonest' wear. I believe the coin was used as a pocket piece but it may have just been polished. Opinions?

 

I see many "shiny worn" early Romans like this. Do you think a lot of these coins are polished? I just lost on a Hadrian that looks very similar. I agree the pattern of wear looks more like a pocket piece, but could that be caused by the relief?

 

The "best" tooling would appear on gold coins, primarily aurei and high-value medallions. THAT is hard to spot. On bronze, tooling is usually found on bronzes originating in Eastern Europe. Somehow, the middlemen there think that it sells well. Most of the large Imperial bronze of the 1st-2nd century that is sold these days seems to be tooled. I recommend looking at the hairdoo, toolers have a hard time replicating that correctly.

 

Good to know, thank you. Personally I just buy from very good sellers, or if its on Ebay or the like I buy worn ones. I see the good firms listing smoothing and tooling a lot lately, so I was suspicious that this was happening more and more. It makes me nervous how some other firms are NOT listing that, since many coins come from the same sources it makes me suspicious they either do nto want to say it, or do not know it. Either way its making me more nervous of some firms, and more confident in others.

Chris

 

Interesting discussion you guys are having.

Randy, I like your Domitian, it has a nice even surface and an appealing colour. Nice coin. The Commodus, however, is a bit rough for my taste. You are right though when you say that coins which have seen extensive use, somehow convey well the events of that world for which they were made.

Doug's Galba is still a nice coin. He is right, I think, in assuming this coin did not wear that way thru circulation, but rather in somebodies pocket.

On the subject of tooling, the german forums are full of such discussions, and how even reputable auction houses increasingly offer early bronzes which have been 'enhanced' via tooling. More disturbing is the fact that the tooling is not always mentioned, or very cursorily.

I am sure that there are more than a few coins in my collection which have been tooled, and I did not recognize it. The chances of that happening now, however, are lesser as my experience has increased (at least I hope so!).

Here is an Augustus dupondius, bought a long time ago, I would be very interested in hearing your opinions on. I was attracted by the nice portrait, but did not pay too much attention to the reverse which seems to have been tooled, specially Augustus' robe. It seems different to other coins I have compared it to.

 

FWIW, I am hearing even the high end auction houses in Europe are selling many bronzes without mentioning it either. A member of my ancient coin club is a high end buyer, and uses a high end rep, ($5000 minimum, will only examine and bid on coins $2500 or more), who examined a couple of recent auctions for him in Switzerland. He told him he would not bid on a single coin since all were smoothed and half were tooled. Not one lot in the catalog mentioned either of these facts. The rep, (a well known dealer), said the quality of work was extremely good and if not in hand he could not see it.

Chris

 

I believe it unlikely that such shine came out of the ground so that leaves pocket piece or buffing wheel. I do not know how to be certain.