Need help identifying this Alexander III drachm.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by ArtDeco, Nov 20, 2023.

  1. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Hello, I need help identifying this Alexander The Great type drachm.

    It has no mint mark on the bottom left of the reverse, I'm not sure if there is any sort of mint mark under Zeus on the reverse, it is hard to tell.

    This drachm is tiny, at almost exactly 16mm and it weighs 3.32 grams.

    I'm pretty sure this is a post-humous issue since Zeus' legs are crossed but I know there were exceptions according to Price.


    Anyone can identify this coin for me? Thanks!


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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Image not attached
     
  4. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I just fixed it now!
     
  5. JPD3

    JPD3 Well-Known Member

    Try browsing through the many entries of:
    https://www.ma-shops.com/
    Type in your particulars in the upper left hand search bar on their site.
    Alexander The Great type drachm will bring up quite a few illustrations. It's possible you can find a match.
     
  6. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the tip, I have tried using this database with no avail, could not find a match

    https://numismatics.org/pella/resul...e" AND material_facet:"sølv"&lang=da&start=20


    I can try looking at Vcoin listings or past listings but it will take me hours.
    Hopefully it will work, fingers crossed!
     
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  7. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    That trident Zeus is holding is unusual. I've never seen that before.
     
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  8. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    You're actually right, I don't think I've seen any Alexander type where Zeus is holding a Trident before.
    The photos I took make the coin seem a little fake but it's because it's quite small and my phone camera sucks.
     
  9. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    Seriously I think this is a cast fantasy fake. On Alexander lifetime and posthumous coinage, Zeus holds a sceptre, not a trident, never. The bird is always an eagle, on this coin it looks more like some kind of pigeon or dove. And the reverse details are not sharp, they look like a cast. You can even see file marks on the edge.
    ... and the weight is way too light !
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
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  10. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I thought it looked fake when I first saw it last night, but I hate to use the "F" word unless I'm certain. Too many things look off to me beginning with the portrait, what appears to be casting bubbles, the trident rather than a septre. If this were offered for sale I would pass because I can't be certain of its authenticity.
     
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  11. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    This coin does look a bit fake in the photos because of the lighting and zoom in, but from what I can tell, it doesn't look casted in person.
    I really hope it's not.

    I will try to take better photos later when I get home tonight.
     
    paschka likes this.
  12. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    The coin is at home right now, but it appears to be silver composition.

    Could it also be possible that this coin is an ancient imitation or a strange minting from some island in the Hellenistic region?
     
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    This is a drachm from my collection. To my untrained eye, the differences are stark Alexander III.jpg
     
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  14. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Here are some more photos, this time I caught something interesting, I took a close up photo of the coin through my LED magnification tool and I then noticed spots of green-looking patina on the coin. This is almost like the type of patina you would find on bronze coins or even spots of bronze disease.

    The more I examine the coin, I also notice that the edges of the details on the coins don't look very natural, slightly too uniform, not enough wear to be ancient. I would say though that this would have been very hard for me to spot still and the trident and duck aside, this would have fooled me again.


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  15. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    There are a few things wrong with this coin, as previous comments have pointed out, the clearest being the trident.

    This is, in fact, a well-known fake, published in 1984 in the IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits & published in MJ Price's book on Alexander's coinage. Once you've seen it, it's quite recognizable from the trident.

    These are modern dies. The original fakes were struck or pressed I believe. The OP coin appears to have been cast from one of those (or cast from a cast from a...), with the edges filed to conceal the evidence.
    normal_IBSCC_Bulletin_on_Counterfeits_BOCS_Vol_9_No__1_1984_Page_14.jpg

    Here is Price's image:
    normal_Price_F108.jpg

    Thanks to Din X at Forum for posting the photos from BOC & Price.

    Sources:
    https://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=MafAu/Bjm50=

    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=21907
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=21909
    See also:
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=21908
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=17632
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  16. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member



    Holy crap, that is great info. I'm glad it is comfirmed now, I can easily return this to the seller that I purchased it from (I don't even think the seller knows that it is fake).
     
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