Natural or dipped or... ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by CircCam, May 2, 2018.

  1. CircCam

    CircCam Victory

    IMG_6780.PNG

    I'm trying to understand this coin... I'm curious if this strikes you folks as more likely:

    A) Something that can happen naturally

    B) A coin that was entirely toned dark and then dipped, with the portrait outline, motto, date etc. having hung on.

    C) Something else.

    The longer I do this, the more suspicious I am of looks I've never seen before being the result of alteration, but it was cheap and figured I'd learn something by sharing.

    Thanks.
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
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  3. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    B for sure, and why people believe they can restore a coin from this state is beyond me. What even a larger question is how do coins as such get graded bt a TPG ? They been cleaned or altered.
     
  4. Casman

    Casman Well-Known Member

    I would go with (C) and just say Cleaned
     
  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I would've guessed it could be natural and just spent a long time in an old album, but since the previous two respondents seem pretty confident it was cleaned, I guess I can't really contradict that, either.

    I've bought partial sets of silver coins in the old blue Whitman folders and seen quite a few with this kind of toning. Whether the coins were cleaned beforehand or not, I can't say, but I would imagine this kind of toning (or re-toning, as the case may be) forms over some extended time.

    PS- original or not, I don't dislike the look on this particular coin, though "just a dab will do ya" with this sort of toning. When it gets too mottled or streaky or covers wide swaths of the coin's surface, I'll pass. But in this case, since it kinda highlights the design features, I find it OK.
     
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  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I feel the coin probably had a couple of really quick dips to remove some of the dark toning. Any more would have killed the coin. It looks to have a bit of luster in the fields. I don't understand the yellow to parts of the coin. Maybe just the lighting used to image it. I like the coin.
     
  7. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Totally disagree with most folks here. I've seen Washington's naturally tone this way over time in an album. @lordmarcovan is right about that. IMO, there was absolutely NOTHING done to alter it. 100% original.
     
  8. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I've seen this type of toning on silver quarters enough to say that there is a potential it just toned this way. It could've been dipped, it could've not been dipped. It could've been in a case that caused funny toning. I don't think we could ever actually know without speaking to the previous owners of this one. Just my two cents.
     
  9. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

    Most likely natural toning. I've seen many Washington quarters with toning like this from an album.
     
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  10. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Numismatic Enthusiast

    The yellow may be chemical corrosion?
     
  11. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    My first thought was natural toning...though I reckon there's generally room for debate on toning.
     
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  12. *coins

    *coins Well-Known Member

    Yup, natural toning.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  13. Tater

    Tater Coin Collector

    I was going to go A natural even before reading the comments. Not sure why but I have seen several old washingtons like this. Maybe is sat in an old cardboard square flip or album with lots of humidity.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I was thinking the same thing.

    Yellow is the first color in the toning color progression.
     
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree.
     
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  16. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Yes, I live in a very humid coastal area in the Deep South, so "attic coins" and stuff from old folders often have this look. The temperature in non-climate-controlled attics and storage spaces here in summertime gets positively steamy and like the inside of a broiler.

    There is also a lot of sulfur in the atmosphere here, even if you don't count the paper mill emissions. Our well has to be aereated because of sulfur water. (You Floridians will know all about that.)

    I'm not sure how humidity factors in, but I'm sure it does.

    And heat + sulfur + time = toning.
     
    Jebocement likes this.
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I don't think all of that on that coin is toning, I think some of it is dirt.
     
  18. Jebocement

    Jebocement Member

    I live in Florida and agree with you!!!!! Also, I have some really great old Morgans from New Orleans that have great toning due to climate/atmosphere/storage issues.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  19. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    This coin looks perfectly natural to me.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  20. CircCam

    CircCam Victory

    Interesting replies and all appreciated.

    The yellow toning is on the coin; there's definitely luster left and it cartwheels on both sides. I'm thinking the coin is AU by the look of the cheek and eagles legs.

    As my tastes have turned towards all-original coins I'm learning it is a beast all its own- thick original patina vs. environmental damage, crust vs. terminal toning, etc. If anyone can recommend any literature on this subject I'd love to check it out.
     
    JPeace$ likes this.
  21. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I grade it MS65, fwiw...
     
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