N777mwood at it again!

Was looking around for a 1890 $1 Treasury note and ran into his listing...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130621087762?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Something didn't seen right with this note? The Colors just looked wrong on the back, almost to green. A little bit of leaching is also noted from using bleach or other chems...
Well I did a little homework, and ran into this listing... WOW he doctored this bad boy in two weeks! Not bad.. He is currently looking at making over a hundred bucks for his work so for. Still 30 or so minutes left on the listing...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150716467400+

Seriously! Do people not check their notes when they get them? I mean the guy has 1 negative!
Guys I use a 20x loupe just like with coins!

 

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This guy is at the top of my do-not-buy-from list.

 

Wow, that is infuriating. I don't even collect paper money. Good detective work Ron. Too bad potential bidders aren't as vigilant.

 

What is the difference of cleaning a coin or a bill ?
So he made a few bucks, he took a big gamble and could have lost everything.
IMO the guy did a great job of restoration.

 

Yep, the pin hole, the tear and the creases "magically" disappeared. The man is a restoration genius.

 

Yes, the restoration is great…however, there is no disclosure of the bill's history or the doctoring that has been done. These doctored bills have a legacy that will live on forever via published past online auction results. Not volunteering the note’s history to prospective buyers is simply being dishonest, IMHO.

 

Good point Dave. Maybe I jumped the gun thinking this is deceptive, since I do not collect paper. Is the 'restoration' of old bills considered acceptable in the paper market? Could a TPG tell it was restored, and if so, would it not get a grade(like cleaned coins)? Should a seller be clear that it has been restored? Educate me!

 

Not to mention the impact on the grade if the buyer gets it slab. If they did notes the same as coins it would come back in a body bag. From the pictures wood took a VG w/Major Issues, and sold it as a Fine+ w/Minors.

This is not Woods first rodeo. He has burned a few members on the paper forum. ...and he is one of many out there!

 

Yes, from what I've read on CT there are people who have gotten burned. He sells with nary a mention that he's purchased a note for say 100-400 $, works his artistic talent on and about two or three weeks later, sells it as if it was authentically in that condition for anywhere from a 1-3,000 or more. He makes no real attempt from what I've seen to change any serial numbers, and although you can't track the provenance of all his bills, there are a few that you can. They certainly can go from a low to middling grade to high quality very fast. And he's good at fixing pinholes, faded paper, etc. He irons and cuts also, as neccessary (trims edges if he can). It is artistic, but IMO very unfair to the actual collector who thinks they are getting the real McCoy as far as being in pristine or near pristine condition. I'm surprised as well that there's not been more of an outcry, but ???? I don't know why that's happening. Are his creations actually passing the tpgs?

In any case there's two things I'm sure of: he does excellent work, and for the buyer or future buyers of these notes, it is totally as dishonest as any dealer misrepresenting their goods by not disclosing.

And ebay encourages people to put positive feedback --- just try to put negative or neutral now, and they throw up so many roadblocks. The only thing that is easy if you don't want to leave positive feedback is to just not leave any at all. And that doesn't help.


Buyer beware.

 

Here is another example (different seller) of notes bought, doctored and quickly resold...

Before (Heritage sale January 6, 2011 for $632.50):


After (eBay sale March 6, 2011 for $1,325) :


In fact, this was a very blatant example of the non-disclosure issue, as this particular note magically went from 30PPQ to "AU/UNC":

 

In regards to the currency how do these guys repair pin holes? How do they replace missing and torn currency? Do they apply some other paper? It would be nice if someone who has the restoration knowledge to share. Do different chemicals cause different results and colors? Can most of the alterations be discovered before the currency is in hand by knowing what to look for in the pictures? Its easy to take a black light and loupe and see some of this after auction. In fact, is there an informative book regarding such alteration methods? Questions like has the currency been washed and ironed may be obvious to old timers by looking at a picture, but any information offered may help those like myself be better at purchasing at auctions. Thanks

 

Steve that is a good question, and I'm sure the TPG do their best to protect and inform the end users.
Yes there is restored notes, and they will be noted on slabs and will drop the grade regardless of how awesome the job is done, it still not original.
A lot of people just use bleach, and detergents to whiten the paper, however the smell and dimensions can be effected and is typically discovered even by particular end users.
Pressing and ironing can KILL the raised intaglio printing, and can for better word glaze the note.
I think some advanced techniques can involve some sort of paste like 'white-out' of fiber resin to repair, and use paints and comb over fibers to fix cracks in the image. (I saw this program on repairing movie posters, and it's amazing what a little time will get you!)
I should contact Mr. Wood and ask him what he uses LOL
BTW: I'm sure a good back light will uncover most of these major mods, and of coarse your sniffer is also your best friend for finding processed notes.
With today modern technology, expect these guys to use high quality inks and offset printing right on top!!! and just like coins, a grade up and the value can get crazy!

My best advise; don't drop anything over five bills that's not in a TT slab (PCGS, PMG, & CGA) from a dealer you don't know! Don't buy from anyone who doesn't offer a money back guarantee! ALWAYS KNOW YOUR DEALER!

 

Yoyo, If that $5 was graded again, I doubt that it would get the higher designation. If it does, no longer will it have the PPQ designation, and an "apparent" will be added to the note. Basically whoever buys the note is being misled as you previously stated. Definitely some unscrupulous people out there.

Ron, as always thanks for checking in on this guy to report to the members here what he is doing. Knowledge is the best tool and hopefully new members here will learn about this guy.

 

Thanks Ronterry...

 

After catching our buddy doing it yet again today, I think I have his partial eBay buyers user name he uses.
f***w ( private )

Just beware if you track down a matching note with the winning bidder with that name. It's very obvious he buys notes and flips them on eBay after he bleaches the crap out of them (The paper is almost blueish, it's that bad!), so if you guys are selling on eBay and see this guy as the winning bidder - grill em! I think he's up in the pacific northwest but I could be wrong.
You guys that got skunked buy him, let us know the city. You don't need to give his address, cause I don't want to be responsible for what could happen. (You can PM me if you wish to stay anonymous)

The guy is destroying these notes forever, for a profit. It's one thing to restore a very very very rare banknote with only 2 in the world but to bleach 1928 $20 Gold Certs - NO it's pure profit motive! It's killing me people are buying these without this knowledge!

BTW: this is what brought him back on the radar... Avoid this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-20-Twenty-dollars-Gold-certificate-note-coin-bill-/120837189718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c22753056



He did what looks like a some moderate bleaching to remove sludge on the edges, and most certainly ironed it. Looks like an XF? NOT!!!

Here's the original from a listing a couple of week ago. The camera white balance looks off a little from the sellers photo giving it a yellowish tint, but it's not crazy white till NWood got his hands on it! All the dirt from handling around the edges is magically gone?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270876540925+

 

Thanks for the info. He really is doing a disservice to collectors. But the partial ebay name is randomly done, I believe, and can change over time (with different auctions. It's just a way to have ebay distinguish certain buyers in one auction, the name doesn't stay to the next one he does. And the fact that he can choose his feedback to be private also doesn't let other ebayers look to see recent feedback (without the item number anyways).

 

As a rodeoclown myself, I'll make sure the bull bucks him off and a nice hoof steps on his head.. :yes:

 

I see he has listed the bills' condition as unknown. Did he do this on his past auctions as well? It may be a red flag when you see this in his current listings. It could remove any liability from him, if challenged about its doctoring.

 

Yeah but if you have proof of his original purchase and then the resell of it, it clearly proves he knows the condition of the note.

 

I'm also thinking of future purchases. My guess is he doesn't do this with every note he sells, just the higher grade stuff. It wouldn't be worth his effort on currency that would only bring low dollars even in better grades, say $200-$300 or less. He could point to those notes as not being doctored. But if there is a note at the boarderline price, and its' condition is unknown, you could flag it for others as possible doctoring. You wouldn't need to find the original sale.