My love-hate relationship with PCGS continues...

I submitted two coins to cross last month and the beginnings of the results came across today.

Coin #1: 46th Ohio Volunteers 25 Cent Sutler - Originally NGC VF30, got the cross and a little nod, now PCGS Secure VF35. This one was pretty important to me, as a Columbus Civil War token collector - the 46th was Thomas Worthington's regiment, founder and namesake of the City of Worthington. I had no doubt on this one, I bought it from Rick Irons and it had his notes and decals all over the original holder.

Coin #2: Fugio 10-T (1 Over Horizontal 1) - Originally NGC F-Details, misholdered as a standard four cinquefoils Fugio. It sold at Heritage last year, and the auction noted the error on the slab and confirmed the 10-T variety. I also sent in a letter with the specific die markers for the variety that were on the piece. DNC - Did not cross... ugh. I'm going to try to call them tomorrow morning before it gets bundled up and shipped back to figure out what the issue is. Maybe with a notarized letter from Abel Buell they'd believe it's a 10-T...

Pictures to come, at least of the sutler.

 

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I assume the fugio was corroded? Maybe they thought it was too corroded to cross? If not, that means at least 4 graders have gotten it wrong.

 

It was corroded, yes, and in their defense (trying to be unbiased), it is significantly corroded around the date - so the most obvious die marker - the 1 double struck - is a bit rough. However, all four cinquefoils are easily visible, and when you confirm the reverse is a "T," and use the cinquefoils to eliminate the other obverse pairings, it is clearly obverse 10. PCGS just can't use their imagination...

 

Just for discussion's sake, here are my web pics of the coin - I know they are pretty small, but you get the idea:


And Heritage's write-up from the auction: "This Cinquefoils variety shows the 1 in the date lying over a horizontal 1, a rare pairing. On the T reverse, the W is too far to the left, piercing the inner ring, and the last E is quite low. Extensive corrosion affects the upper half of the obverse, particularly a small circular patch that has obliterated the first 7. But sufficient detail remains on the adjacent 1 to clearly make out the superfluous digit. Medium brownish-black surfaces overall." All of which I agree with.

 

Pcgs will not grade a problem coin, only put it in a " Genuine " slab ..

Ngc had it as " F " or Fine, Details ...

 

I had selected to have it cross as a details coin. I was less concerned with the straight grade than getting it attributed correctly. Ah well... I'll call at 10 EST.

 

Lets us know what happens, should be interesting ..

 

Did you select cross at any grade? If not can't assume it had anything to do with the attribution.

Personally I would have just cracked that one out. Crossover grading is always harder being at the disadvantage having to grade it through a slab.

They won't give numerical grade eg 30/35 ect but they will give F/VF/XF ect just like NGC does.

 

I've never seen that done, only genuine ...

 

They've been doing it for years. Go look on GreatCollections, or Ebay, or Heritage ect they're literally everywhere. They have an option when you submit to just get genuine on the label if you wish but the default is the to have the letter grade.

 

Why don't you post one of those sites, so I can see it .
No punt intended ......

 

They all come up on google. "PCGS details" also works in details. "PCGS grading standards" works in google as well

 

Here's some info on genuine coins from pcgs site:

Problem Coins
All of the coins in this category (other than 83 and 99) submitted through the regular PCGS services will be placed in a PCGS Genuine holder, ungraded, with one of the following numerical codes placed after the coin number on the holder insert. On certain No Grades (as noted in the table below) the problem is more fully described on the insert. To read a more comprehensive description of any No Grade, click on the “more” link of any No Grade category.

 

There's really nothing to debate here. PCGS gives letter grades to details coins, its a fact. You can google it and see or look at the numerous threads here that show them and discuss them.

 

I guess time will tell .

 

Here's a couple of my genuine and there's no grades .
I have more if someone wants to see them .

PCGS Coin Information
PCGS # 7560
Date, mintmark 1862
Denomination G$1
Country The United States of America
Grade Genuine (98 - Damage)
Pedigree Mounts Removed
Mintage 1,361,355
Holder Type Standard

PCGS Coin Information
PCGS # 9156
Date, mintmark 1910-S
Denomination $20
Country The United States of America
Grade Genuine (98 - Damage)
Mintage 2,128,250
Holder Type Standard

 

No it won't, it is a fact they have been doing it for years if not longer.......

 

Here are some PCGS adjectival graded details coins: http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=p...32.R1.TR5.TRC2.Xpcgs+details&sqp=pcgs+details

 

I predict this coin will get a code 97 and may not be slab if pcgs chooses not too ...

 

Sorry for being ignorant, but what do you mean by did not "cross"?