My First Purchase of 2017!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by TypeCoin971793, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I just made my first purchase of the year! I had originally planned to buy this in December, but a delay in the arrival of a check pushed things back a bit.

    Prior to the flat-footed and pointed-foot spades that we all know and love, there existed a species of spades called arched-feet because the crotch of the spade is arched. (The Georgia Tech Band would now be giving a long, sarcastic OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH.....). These are sometimes called "Heavy Spades" because they are more robust and have more metal than the other flat-handled spades. (OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH.....) Almost all, if not all of this type, are attributed to the State of Liang and are said to have been cast between 425-344 BC because that is when Liang was in its height of power. The distinct legs suggest that these directly evolved from the hollow-handled spades with pointed shoulders and feet (pictured at the end), adopting the flat handle for ease of transport and commerce. If this is true, then it is likely that this variety of hollow-handled spades were the latest in the evolution and represent the transition between hollow-handle and flat-handle.

    Also interesting is that the arch-foot spades are the first coins in China (and only spades) to consistently have a denomination. These were denominated in Jin, which was equivalent to the Chinese ounce, the Liang. An ounce had 24 Zhu. Judging from Zhou weights, a Zhu was supposed to weigh the equivalent of 0.65g. However, in practice (or due to depreciation during the Warring States Period) the Zhu used for coinage averaged about 0.5g. The arch-foot spades were denominated in 1/2, 1, 2, and 3 Jin or 12, 24, 48, and 72 Zhu. Why these are denominated and not others is unknown, but it may be because the state of Zhou had recently fallen and the Warring States period had begun, necesitating a denominated coin for interstate commerce.

    This particular spade is called a "Special Spade" of Liang because of the complexity of its inscription. There are four denominations for these, 1/2 Jin, 1 "Old" Jin, 1 "New" Jin, and 2 Jin. This coin is the more-desireable 2-Jin denomination. Though not fully agreed-upon, the most plausible inscription is Liang Chong Jin Wu Dang Lie Shi Er or "Liang Money to be Used as 5 Jin and Equal to 12 Lie. It is interesting to note how there seems to be a currency conversion in the inscription. What exactly a Lie is is unknown, and all known records of a Lie do not corroborate with the weight of this coin. The problem with this decipherment is that this coin is denominated 5 Jin, even though it weighs 2 Jin. One can argue that this is a fiduciary and inflated issue, but that theory is unsubstantiated because all of the other coins in this type weigh consistently with their denomination.

    This coin is pretty rare. I had been wanting an example of this type for about 4 years and decided that I would never get one. I even bought a counterfeit for my collection to fill the hole. Then this one popped up for half the going rate, so I watched it until I bought it. I am pretty sure it is genuine, but I won't be absolutely sure until I have it in hand. Everything I have bought from this seller has been genuine, but I have seen some fakes in his inventory.

    Arch-Foot Spade (ca 430-300 BC)
    Obverse: Liang Chong Jin Wu Dang Lie Shi Er
    Reverse: Blank
    H-3.48

    IMG_8330.JPG

    As promised, here is this one:

    Hollow-Handled Spade (ca 500-400 BC)
    Obverse: Blank
    Reverse: Blank
    H-2.183 (though same size as H-2.186)

    IMG_3664.JPG
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Pretty cool ... it's sooo far away from my coin-targets, but that's always a good thing, eh? (no coin-bro competition between us)

    :rolleyes:

    ... it is pretty cool (I have zero-clue how much this item is worth/cost?)

    Oh, and if that's a rude question, then please let it slide off of you, like water off of a spade-digger's arse

    ;)

    Congrats on the new OP-addition (I may have snag one of these, just because)
     
    Johndoe2000$ and TypeCoin971793 like this.
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I paid $240. Bob Reis has one for $500. Results from Steve Album have been in the $400-600+ range.
     
    Johndoe2000$ and stevex6 like this.
  5. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    Cool. The insignia on the obverse looks like my old unit patch.
    20160815_210417_1471313151592.jpg
    At the time 7th Inf, Div (L)
    Ft. Ord, Calif.
    Yeah back before you was born @TypeCoin971793
     
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    TOUCHDOWN, Dude! Nice find! I just have that recent square spade that I showed you in another thread! Great job!
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    That character is the reason I liked this variety. It is the seal script version of "Wu", or 5, front and center.
     
    Smojo and Alegandron like this.
  8. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    And that is nothing to be ashamed of!
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  9. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    Your collection has character.
    I used to collect swords & well different types of blades. Sure wish I still had a lot of those. The ones I have are hardly note worthy. But those were mostly European.
    The Orient is amazing though.
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Hey! Forgot I had this Spade too...
    China Zhou Dyn 1122-255 BC AE Small Sq Ft Spade An Yang 30x45mm 5-27g H3-182  S-13+ O-R.jpg
    China Zhou Dyn 1122-255 BC AE Small Sq Ft Spade An Yang 30x45mm 5-27g H3-182 S-13+

    So now, I have two...
    upload_2017-1-3_17-25-51.png

    As well as my dubious Wang Mang Pants Huo Bu spade money...
     
  11. Golden age

    Golden age Go for the gold

    281-228BC_ARdidrachm_horseman_Taras_AUstar_5_4_obv_close.jpg 281-228BC_ARdidrachm_horseman_Taras_AUstar_5_4_rev_close.jpg

    And my first purchase of the new year. Always liked this one, found at good price. Always love it when a TPGS adds a question mark in the description.
     

    Attached Files:

    Puckles, stevex6, Bing and 8 others like this.
  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The relief on that must be stunning!
     
  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    The question mark is in the correct place. There are many, many varieties among these Calabrian didrachms, and some of the dolphin riders are clearly not Taras. Some are boyish characters carrying an akrostolion (a ship ornament representing victory), others are described as Phalanthos (a divine hero and leader of the Spartans). Taras is typically lean and sports his father's (or perhaps his own) trident, so when you get a short, stout figure carrying something else, in your case a distaff...is it a different aspect of Taras or some other entity?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    g00150bb0320.jpg
    JA skillfully explains the proper use of the question mark. When we are trying to deconstruct the intentions of people from 2000 years ago we are bound to run into little differences that may be very significant or just a matter of handwriting. I suspect you could assemble a thousand variations of the dolphin rider/jockey theme without dipping to what I would call just 'handwriting'. Most catalogers say 'boy' on dolphin but some of the 'boys' are awfully big. The question mark seems a good idea here and should not be taken as a lack of knowledge but as a realization that we, collectively, are not fully in control of this subject. I have to admire people who know enough to know what they know and what they don't.
     
    Golden age, Puckles, Bing and 3 others like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page