I was interested in purchasing a complete set of Grover Cleveland presidential dollars for both 22nd and 24th terms. I didn't want to pay a lot for them as they aren't particularly a good investment. In short, i wanted high grade coins for as little as possible. I found what appeared to be mint state set P, S and D for $4 each which was okay especially compared with others on eBay. One coin was a cameo and the other two were mint coins. I purchased them and they came in a slab which was surprising given that the highest grade mint coins in the presidential series are only listed for $8 to $10 each. I wasn't really looking that closely at the slab when I bought the coins, but when they arrived they were all graded MS70 including the cameo. Taking a close look you could see they had some bag marks on them. Still all uncirculated and in nice condition, but no way were these MS70s. I didn't expect MS70 coins and I would have been happy with these if they were graded properly. Having an obvious crazy grade makes it worse than having a raw coin. I looked up the grading company (SGS) and they were listed as 'bottom of the barrel'. The price was right. The coins are acceptable. But for SGS to grade every coin the same and obviously way over graded was stupid on their part. They actually got less money for these than most of the raw ones that had bag marks.
Here is one of there MS70 coins. I paid less so my error wasn't really bad financially, but it is a shame to grade coins like they do. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-P-PERF...77?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item43bd77f31d
Their business model has kept them active and selling on ebay for quite a while, so there is no doubt a (rather substantial) segment of the hobby industry that accepts their product.
I agree. For shear volume, SGS is right up there with the "big boys". Personally, I don't have a problem with them, as I realize everything is graded either 70 or "authentic".
If you watch their auctions enough you can sometimes "cherry pick" high grade coins from them. Most people over look the coin because of the name on the slab. Once again that is why you buy the coin not the slab, but if you are happy with the coin and the price you paid for it that is all that matters.
That seller (linked in post #2) is the perfect example of why ebay feedback is worthless. Proof of it even. Guy sells junk, has been known to sell junk for as long as he's been on ebay (which is going on a decade now) and he has a 99% feedback rating.
The coins I received would probably be graded MS60 to MS63 maybe. The are definitely uncirculated, but have slight marks, but nothing major. I did not purchase these as an investment and didn't want to pay a lot for them. I'll be dead and buried before they are worth anything and maybe even then they won't be worth too much as they made quite a few and everyone and his brother snapped them up as collectables. My only beef with SGS is that they don't really even bother to grade the coins. They print up a ton of labels with MS70 and stick them on slabs for every coin. If I were planning on buying a nice coin thinking it will increase in value over time I would never purchase an SGS graded coin.
you are correct in my opinion that buying from low quality grading services can be cheaper then buying raw.the unfortunate thing is that not everyone is aware enough to buy.
Had you looked at the seller's other offerings and checked the SGS website, you would have noticed that Mansfield (seller's claimed address) and Ashland (SGS) are just a few miles from each other; an unlikely coincidence. Take it as an inexpensive lesson learned and simply move on.
You are absolutely correct. In fact, my biggest mistake was I looked at the coins in a slab and never really looked at the grading company. After receiving the coins and noticing they were all graded MS70 and knowing there was no way they were that grade I Googled SGS and found out they are specifically listed as the worst grader, no, 'the bottom of the barrel' is how they were reviewed. The good thing is that the coins with shipping were about $6 each in a nice slab. The two cameos I purchased, one for the 22nd and one for the 24th term were really cameo quality with some slight flaws. The others were nice uncirculated with slight contact marks, but still a nice grade coin. Why not take a few seconds and grade the coins more accurately?
Because he makes his living by scamming people. Nobody would buy them if they were graded correctly. They buy them because of the 70 on the plastic. Besides, I doubt he knows how to grade them correctly.
A clear example of buy the coin, not the holder or the seller's feedbag. There are sellers out there with stellar feedbag that prey on the uninformed.
Strangely enough, I actually was on ebay the other day, and he had some Roosevelt dimes graded MS-68 (!). Looking at them a little closer, I'd give them grades ranging from MS-62 to MS-65. So he is finally coming to a realization that all Uncs are not MS-70. But he still has no clue how to grade U.S. coinage.
I pretty much do not waste my time on bottom tier tpgs like this, but I will admit that my father got some morgans significantly less than what he could get NGC and PCGS coins for. He cracked them and sent them in - got 64's on 2 and one was body bagged for cleaning. When he sold those were 2 that he made some money on including the grading fees. So if you can get some at a fare price and get re-graded I would not dismiss them - but you better know what you are doing. Just my opinion.
Something happened awhile back, I forget exactly what it was... but I know SGS and their alias on eBay are very protective of their product, their "integrity" and their business in general. There was a problem with eBay also, but that was resolved.
if they managed to resolve stuff with e bay then they must be something. ebay is part of the problem IMHO
