I'd like to start a new post with the following link, and see how others feel: http://www.coinlink.com/News/commentary-and-opinion/when-cheap-is-not-cheap-enough/
Sorry...I meant 'Good Read' and new thread. Something to think about, from a dealers perspective at least. How do the dealers here feel about sub-par coins and how do you deal with them? Thanks.
This is only really good. I have asked many peoples opinion on a coin before I bought it. Its worth it to have someone hold the coin in hand before you buy it.
That depends on the dealer. Some will sell the coins as is and what the slab says they are - full retail. But knowledgeable buyers won't be buying them. Some dealers won't buy them at all so they don't have to worry about it. Others will buy them cheap and sell them cheap. Somebody is always going to buy them - plastic buyers or hole fillers usually. Something you as a collector should realize - the majority of coins out there are sub-par coins. You just have to be astute enough to recognize them and pass them by. Many don't.
Yes cheap is not cheap enough, you don't go out and buy crap coins, no matter how great the deal, in the long run it will come back to haunt you. I do not agree with the "Pay a professional" thing, that is ridiculous. If you can't buy coins, without having somebody hold you hand, well maybe buying coins isn't right for you, and you need to do some homework! It is okay, asking for opinions on a coin, I do it, many people do it, but paying somebody is just down right ridiculous, when you shouldn't have to, what will they say "nice coin", and to think if you would have paid a little more attention to coins that sold, go to coin shows, and even buy the book on that certain series, you wouldn't have to pay anyone.
I can't find much in the article to disagree with. Anyone who intends to purchase coins with significantly high prices certainly should be willing to pay a 5% fee to someone like Laura to choose only the highest quality -- unless they are very very confident of their skills and ability to go it alone. More collectors probably believe they have the skill than actually have it. It takes neither brains nor training to write huge checks based on the label on the slab so their neighbors can oooh and ahhhh over the coin. In theory this can be profitable. In practice a lot can go wrong.
This bring to my mind of a car sales man My wife and I ran into when we were first married. long story short we were looking at a car when the sales man and another salesman with another couple tried to work " what I call the squeeze play" on us and the other couple! I let the other couple WIN! Number s don't lie...but even coins with a 2000 or less mintage will one day come into the market place. I waited many years to pick up my fleix schlag auto 1938 proof nickel! Don't be foolish to jump at what others say is the real deal.....TV coin shows has milked the golden cow of state quarters, until she has run dry! but...there are still people who believe that one day these will be worth lots of $$$$ ..... to me a state quarter is worth 15 mins of parking down town! Don't get caught up in a squeeze play ! Just a bit of advise. Paddy
That comment by John Wray at the bottom of the page in the article about the ICG graded coins is pretty interesting.
It is certainly very important information that more people should seriously consider. Too many people are paying huge prices for 70s. I think there are 70s out there, but not as many as are in the holders. It'll probably take some sort of huge public scandal to change the way people think about it.
Interesting article, the thought that sprang to my mind was that, if every collector followed the same template, which to me seems to be, to buy the best quality coin, utilizing a dealer to advise, then there would be more of a gap between the various mint state coins then there now is. thirty or 50 times listed values between a ms68 or ms69? And the differences are so minute that only a trained professional can make the call?
To me it almost sounds like a self-serving rant - kind of like "see what happens when you don't use us" and pay us 5% to purchase coins for you. When did collecting become about "profit" - they are about coin investing, not collecting as I see it. The quote that sticks out in my mind after reading the article is "We ALWAYS WHOLESALE any “bad” coin we buy (or send it to the grading services to fix)." - if they were so good why did they buy them in the first place. I understand it could be part of a lot or collection - but they probably bought it for certain coins. So what do they do - they put the problem coins back out there. Yep - that will certainly teach us something. They feed the "price dealers". And yes I bargain hunt for coins so I guess I am part of the "greater fool theory", but at my level of collecting it is not the same. She talks about these collections and the money the collectors lost - but where does she guarantee a coin bought from them will hold its value. Granted they are nice and more likely to hold their cost but still how about a guarantee if you are good as you are saying. At the same time they post an article like this they absolve themselves on their website with this "Buyers are strongly recommended and encouraged to research the items being offered prior to purchase. Buyer assumes all risks concerning and related to the grading, quality and origin of any lot. Buyers should determine purchases based upon their own (e)valuation. Buyers acknowledge that coin grading is not a an exact science; it is possible that two parties might grade the same coin differently." If you go by the article - we paid you 5%, but we assume all the risk. So to borrow a term from bonedigger - I am a blue collar collector and while I might not be an expert I collect what I like with the realization that I may not re-coup my money. Then again since I will be dead(at least that is the plan) I really am not worried. Of course I want my heirs to do as well as possible I will probably get more coins graded. In the end a lot of them will stay raw. So I will keep my "dreck".
I originally went to Google and typed in: 'There is no price too cheap for a problem coin', and this article was the first one on the list.
I got the same feeling from it. Oh an consider this, about the ICG's not crossing to PCGS 70, a lot of PCGS 70's would not remain 70's if resubmitted, especially if cracked out and resubmitted.
Laura is smart, opinionated and not afraid to tackle problems in the industry, like coin doctors. However, Legend sells high-end stuff so it is in her interest to downgrade "dreck" and remind people that if you buy a coin "on the cheap," you generally won't even get what you paid for. A good instance of this is the recent massive Joseph Thomas auctions by Heritage where many of the coins appeared to have been bought by "Joe Thomas" purely on the slab and not the coin, ie low-end for the grade. The auction prices reflected it and it would be short-sighted to make too many assumptions about "market value" based on these auction prices.
