MSxx vs MSxx+

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by bugo, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. bugo

    bugo Well-Known Member

    I recently purchased my first plus graded coin, an MS65+ 1945-P silver war nickel. I don't really understand the plus designation. I understand the plus designation means that the coin is especially attractive for a coin with that grade, but I don't know much more about them. If the coin looks better than an MS65 why not just grade it as an MS66? I don't see them a lot in my ebay searches, and they seem to be more scarce than non-plus designations. Is a MS65+ worth more than an MS66? If so, is it because of their relative rarity compared to non-plus coins?
     
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  3. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    I have two PCGS Slabs with a plus Designation, a Saint Gaudens in 64+ and a Liberty Doueble Eagle in 63+.
    Both coins look better than an average 63 respective 64, but they have too much bagmarks for the next higher grade.
    Luster and eye appeal are superior indeed.
    That's the plus Designation stands for.
     
  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The plus grades mean that the coin just missed the next higher grade.
     
  5. Jdiablo30

    Jdiablo30 Well-Known Member

    the + grade attached to any given grade means that the coin barely missed being in the next grade. It is on the higher end of the grading scale . That's the way I see it at least. a ms64+ grade for me means like ms64.7-9 almost to a ms65
     
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  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    This. It's not that complicated. Technical merit of the given grade, but above-average eye appeal (maybe one side PL, near-cameo, toning, etc.) deserving recognition without a higher grade number. They ought not to be worth more than a "low end" number for the next grade but buying being subjective, sometimes they exceed that.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    What's the plus grade mean ? In simplest terms it's easy - plus = close, but no cigar.

    What a lot of people don't seem to get and never have is from the very beginning of grading there have always been grades within grades. In other words you could have 5 coins all graded 64, but each one of them is just a little bit nicer than the others. Knowledgeable collectors and dealers, and yes even the TPGs, have always known this - it's nothing new. It is the very reason why there is and always has been a price range, sometimes a widely varied price range, for any given coin in any given grade instead just 1 set price for all of them.

    So why did the TPGs suddenly start using plus grades on coins ? Easy answer, money. It provided them with a way to get people to submit coins already graded and slabbed all over again in hope of getting a plus grade.

    Now did these knowledgeable collectors and dealers know this ? Yes, of course they knew it. But they also knew that the bread and butter, the very backbone of the coin market, is and always has been sustained by those who DO NOT know. In other words, the plastic buyers do and always have far outnumbered the knowledgeable. So the knowledgeable take advantage of these people. They go right along with the TPGs, knowing that because the plastic has something "new" on it, the coin will now sell for more to all of those who don't, and never did, know any better. The knowledgeable know that the size of their target market just got increased exponentially by that itty bitty plus sign on the plastic.
     
  8. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    ditto
     
  9. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know, or is there a cut off, what is the lowest MS that can receive a +? Don't think I have ever seen a 61, 62 or 63+ ??
     
  10. talkcoin

    talkcoin Well-Known Member

    I have a 62+ Morgan
     
  11. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    We could have MS 65.5 But then, if it doesn't quite make that, should we have MS 65.1 65.2 .......
     
  12. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I think that's a more accurate description of NGC's star designation.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's because it is the description of NGC's star designation ;)
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

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