About a couple of weeks ago I purchased a coin from a good friend who sold me the coin in good faith. I looked the coin over (fairly well I thought) and agreed upon a fair and inexpensive price. What we both thought the transaction was a legitimate untampered error coin. We both looked the coin over with a 5x glass and we both thought that it was what it purported to be. An error coin that was struck multiple times while in the production phase at the mint. I was so happy with the transaction that I thought that I'd go and discuss it with two seperate dealers to get their impression of it. Dealer #1 thought that it was what both my friend and I thought it was and even said that it was worth sending it in to a TPG for grading and verification. Dealer #2 took one look at the coin and said that it wasn't what we thought it was and when told what Dealer #1 said told me that at best it would come back labeled as "environmental damage". Not know what that term meant I asked him to explain it to me and explain how it could happen. Well when I got home I looked at the coin again with a 5x glass and still could not see what Dealer #2 could see with the naked eye. So not owning a digital camera went out and bought a fairly good one and snapped a couple of pictures. A couple of days later my friend came over to hear what these dealers had to say. Then I downloaded my coin pictures onto my computer (with his help) and there 5" x 5" glory spelled out for both of was the blatant images that neither of us could see with a 5x glass yet Dealer #2 saw immediately and Dealer #1 totally missed. Someone had taken a two coins and placed them in a vice and squeezed and then repositioned them again and resqueezed them again. It was until we expanded the digital pictures that we could see for ourselves the foolishness of what we originally thought was a find and a treasure. Needless to say both of us have a respect for dealer #2 and a jaundiced eye for Dealer #1. I'm glad that I didn't run this coin out to the TPG or the lesson would have been more expensive. The best part of this lesson is that I now have a very good digital camera when I probably could have gotten by with a slightly less expensive camera. Both of us had a good laugh over the whole thing.
Thanks for sharing. Do you plan on educating dealer #1? One good turn deserves another, so he may repay the favor one day. We all have more to learn, after all. So will you keep it?
Will you please post pics? I'm interested to see if it is similar to the '27 wheat cent that was featured in a recent thread. :yes:
Please post your photos. If you had posted photos of the coin here before buying it we could have told you that it was a "squeeze job" (aka, vice job). The silver lining in this matter is that you should now be able to spot a squeeze job when you see one.
Okay, here are the pics. These are the first pics I have tried to post on the site and it took me awhile to determine just how to do post them. The camera I purchase was a Cannon with 4x optical zoom and 12.1 mega pixels. The problem may be obvious now in my pictures, yet when I was looking at them with a 5x glass it looked genuine. These pictures are much bigger than the 5x glass and it is obvious now. Now I know what to look for.
The first thing that should've told you it was a squeeze job is that on the obverse the date and liberty are backwards on the second "strike". If it was actually struck twice at the mint, both strikes would be the right way, not backwards. But hey at least now you know for next time.
You don't have to look too close to see what you thought was a second strike was caused by someone pressing two coins together in a vise. The word "LIBERTY" is backwards. (Along with all the other details of course) ETA: Arthur beat me to it...
There is an error that has a mirror incuse design, I believe it is called a sandwich strike. That being said, 99% of coins that you come across that have an incuse/mirrored image are a squeeze job and were altered outside the mint. Keep up the hunt!
The thing that worries me about dealer #1 is that a lot of people in the are consider him to be guru on coins. But yes, I do plan on stopping in an educating him on this coin and he recommended sending to NGC. As far as whether or not I'm going to keep the coin, I think that I will until I get as satisfactory offer. The coin is valuable only as an horrible example and I don't imagine I'd be getting any satisfactory offer. As far a trying to get my money back from my friend that's a definite no. I entered into the deal willingly and he didn't try to deceive me in any way. We both examined the coin that he found and he said a price that I countered on and he accepted. I think we all have done something foolish (me more than once). I accept by losses and lessons graciously and move on. If I felt that there was an intend to deceive I would most definitely asking for a refund. The amount was minimal for a lesson learned and besides I needed a digital camera.
There should be more people like you. If I make a mistake, I deal with it and don't try to blame it on someone else. Meanwhile most people demand refunds simply because they've changed their mind, even if they don't have a receipt, etc etc. And so many stores honor this behavior that it has become the standard now in the USA.
The lessons that I learned the best were the ones that cost me the most. Sounds like you got a bargain on your lesson.
Someone once told me that the lessons you pay for are best learned. Pay the price and move on. This was supposed to be an old adage something akin to "Don't cry over spilled milk." and the like. Marsden I never blame anyone for making me do something unless it's the old "The devil made me do it." and everyone knows that thats but a lie.
Well, yesterday I drove over to see coin dealer #1 and we discussed the coin and looked at my pictures. In fairness to him, as he tells it the label of some sort of guru is not really appropriate to him. He says that he is not the expert that everyone thinks he is. He tries to run an honest shop but admits that he has not seen all the tricks that people play on one another. He sees where he made a mistake and is just glad that he did not sell the coin. He offered to purchase the coin and have it as a teaching tool. Since I really didn't want the coin in my collection (probably a poor decision on my part) I gave it to him in trade for some inexpensive coin supplies (couple of coin tubes). I really didn't think that it was in anyway valuable towards my collection since I have pictures of it. From now on I'm just going to purchase from him now and then and use him as a sounding board with no thought that his opinion is any different from mine.
