Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Coinismatics2000, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. Hi all,

    Spanish colonial currency is some of my favorites to collect. I have seen several different countermarks before but was left wondering about this countermark:


    What are our thoughts on the countermark and the grade of this coin?

    robinjojo, PamR and SensibleSal66 like this.
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  3. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Cool coin! Maybe it's a Sun/Moon? Grade? I wouldn't know where to begin.
    Coinismatics2000 likes this.
  4. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    A nice coin but I don't know the purpose of the countermarks.

    Coinismatics2000 likes this.
  5. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Unless you can determine that the coin is genuine, all marks are suspicious. Clearly, someone scratched an X in the field above the crown -- not usually something you do to a coin that you trusted.
    Coinismatics2000 likes this.
  6. Once it is in my possession, I'll do the necessary tests on it and try to determine if it's genuine.

    It has come from a wide collection of these Spanish pieces which makes me think it is genuine, though, it wouldn't be out of place if this person collected a counterfeit/untrusted coin too.

    I will investigate once I have it.
  7. Just thinking - the deepest mark is an 'official' countermark for circulation somewhere specific (unsure where). You can tell from the mark on the coat of arms side. Should this be a counterfeit/fake it seems a lot of effort to go to mark it as so.
    It is also quite possible that these are chop marks from somewhere. The circle is seen in some Chinese chop marks though I don't believe this circulated in the Far East at all.
  8. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I think your coin is okay and that large countermark might be Indonesian. A nice example!

    Here's a deluxe countermark treatment on a Mexico 1744 MF 8 reales. Test cuts were added at no extra charge!

    Mexico, 8 reales, 1744 MF, Philip V.
    26.4 grams

    D-Camera Mexico, 8 Reales, 1744 MF, Philip V heavy chops-test cuts 26.4 grams 3-4-21.jpg
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Coinismatics2000 likes this.
  9. Thank you! Blimey that coin has seen better days... glad mine has not been hacked to pieces!

    What leads you to believe that the marks are Indonesian?
    I've researched a lot and made little progress on what those specific countermarks represent. Would love to hear your reasoning!
    robinjojo likes this.
  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Well, not so much reasoning, more like a crude guess. I was focusing on the large roundish countermark between VTRAQUE and VNUM. The design reminded me of some of the countermarks used in Soumenep, Java, but when I visited a website that discusses the countermark used by that Sultanate, I did see anything to match it.

    Here's a link to the site. While the focus is on Maria Theresa dollars with these countermark, they were also used on Spanish colonial coins as well, cobs (less frequently) and milled (much more frequently, based on my experience).
    Coinismatics2000 likes this.
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