Marcus Antonius Legion IIII

Even though I wasn't certain, I went ahead with the purchase of this coin with a guaranteed full refund including shipping if I were not satisfied. With that and the coin in hand, I am asking for your opinions of this coins authenticity. If the majority think it worth the investment, I plan to send it off to David Sear. If not, well, I will return it to the seller for a refund. So please be as honest as you can with your opinions. I have nothing to lose (other than David Sear's charges).


MARCUS ANTONIUS
AR Denarius
OBVERSE: ANT AVG III VIR R P C, Praetorian galley, thyrsos behind prow
REVERSE: LEG XIIII. Legionary eagle between two standards
Patrae 32-31 BC
3.22g, 17mm
RSC 29; SEAR RCV I (2000)

 

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First impression is it's okay

 

My opinion isn't worth very much, as I am still a novice in this hobby, but I wouldn't have bought it, if money wasn't a problem. All the figures, especially the lettering, look 'off' to me. I'm no professional though.

 

I think it was made of dies created from a cast of a cast fake (how's that for convoluted?).

At some point in this process the devices and legends were "strengthened" (reengraved), making the lines wider and in some instances it looks like they were gone over more than once with a graver or similar tool. Perhaps it is cast rather than struck, but the flan cracks look struck rather than cast.

The "original fake" I suspect was the source of the dies, or one like it, is in Forvm's Fakes gallery:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=2

 

I see what TIF is pointing out, and I tend to agree.

Look at the legends on the bottom coin: they have very good relief (depth), yet their top surfaces are flattened as if from circulation wear. This doesn't make sense, since if the wear was sufficient to flatten the surfaces of the legends, the letters would have been worn down to a lower relief. I.e., imagine if the legends in the top coin were worn down until the top surfaces were flattened; then the legends would have a lot less relief.

So I think the devices and legends show too much relief and are too broad to be a genuine coin. Sorry.

 

I agree with @TIF - this is some sort of pressed or struck fake either from totally new dies or transfer dies that have been reworked slightly. I don't think there's any chance that this is authentic unfortunately

 

Unfortunate, but what this exercise has done is confirm my initial suspicions. I took the chance thinking I could send it off to David Sear or just return it for a complete refund including shipping. I had nothing to lose either way. In fact, I've already contacted the seller about the return. He of course insists it's authentic, but will refund me if that is my decision. Thanks all for responding. Any other insights are welcome before I stick this back in the mail.

 

Dang... sorry to hear that Bing. Nobody likes getting a fake whether you can return it or not!

 

Thanks, but I had my doubts from the beginning. I just heard from the seller again:

"Okay, I thought it was true and I thought so. I am sorry. So send it as it is more comfortable for you with the company you want but please be certified. I will pay the shipping costs. Many thanks for everything and I'm sorry I did not know it was false. Thank you and greetings."

Whether he knew or not I can't verify, but I suspect he knew before he sold it to me. But at least he is being true to his word.

 

Definitely a forgery.

Barry Murphy.

 

i know the feeling,

 

Thank you

 

I'm really sorry for you

 

Nothing to be sorry about. It just means the hunt goes on. In reality, the hunt is the fun and excitement. When the hunt is finished there is always a bit of a let down don't you think?

 

Indeed...

 

Amen.

 

When I saw the original post my lack of experience told me it was fine. After seeing the evidence and the explanations it makes sense that it's a fake. Posts like this are such great teachers. I hope your hunt for a nice example is successful very soon and I'm glad you can get your money back.

 

When the hunt is over I get excited about doing the extra research... but I'm wierd I think

 

Me too. I love attributing and learning the history around the coin once I can hold it in my hand.

 

One look was enough to condemn it, unfortunately.
The planchet in particular is uncharacteristically 'flat' and the legends too wide.
(Not that I am an expert, but have seen enough of these to develop a '6th sense')